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00:25 Quetzalcoatl_: Can 'eval' be used at all within a module?
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00:25 offby1: sure
00:26 eli: Quetzalcoatl_: You'll want to read this: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/eval.html
00:26 eli: offby1: BTW, 100 thanks -- I didn't expect that you'd actually read it...
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00:27 Quetzalcoatl_: eli, that's great. It works fine at the REPL, but if I do it inside of a module, then suddenly things like "begin" are undefined.
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00:28 eli: Quetzalcoatl_: Yeah, that page will explain why.
00:29 eli: offby1: (In any case, I was mainly teasing due to your earlier joke...)
00:29 offby1: eli: that one lecture feels like a whole course to me
00:29 eli: :)
00:29 eli: It's not really a one-lecture material...
00:29 eli: It's about 3-4 chapters in PLAI, which I extended.
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00:36 Quetzalcoatl_: Is there a page explaining why (define) creates constants when used in modules?
00:36 offby1: it's a compiler optimization, I think.
00:37 offby1: And you can turn it off.
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00:37 Quetzalcoatl_: Found it: (compile-enforce-module-constants)
00:38 offby1: yep
00:39 Quetzalcoatl_: It doesn't seem to work.
00:40 Quetzalcoatl_: I found a workaround, though.
00:40 offby1: you have to evaluate that before you load the module, I think, which may be tricky.
00:40 offby1: I'm surprised eli hasn't weighed in on this; this is the kinda thing he knows in his sleep
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00:44 Quetzalcoatl_: There'd be no way to evaluate it "before you load the module" if I'm loading it with "racket module.rkt". But if there's a (set!) form somewhere at the module's toplevel, the variable becomes mutable.
00:49 eli: What offby1 said...  It's a very important optimization -- without it things get very different, for example, a looping function must do a lookup of its own name etc.
00:50 eli: And like he said, you need to change it before loading the code, which means that you cannot do it from inside a module that is part of the program,
00:50 eli: and like you found out, if you do a `set!', then you force it to do the reference thing anyway.
00:52 Quetzalcoatl_: (set!) is probably better, then. I just want certain variables mutable, not all the functions.
00:53 offby1: you probably -really- want a parameter, or a box
00:53 offby1: or a couple of functions which mutate a private variable
00:53 offby1: even if you don't _know_ that that's what you want :)
00:55 Quetzalcoatl_: Parameters and boxes require extra syntactic baggage. Otherwise, I'd just use a box.
00:57 eli continues to +1 offby1
00:57 eli: rudybot: init racket
00:57 rudybot: eli: your sandbox is ready
00:57 eli: (Ooh, it changed the default to racket...)
00:57 eli: rudybot: (define param (make-parameter #f))
00:57 rudybot: eli: Done.
00:57 eli: rudybot: (define-syntax p (syntax-id-rules (set!) [(set! x e) (param e)] [(x . xs) ((param) . xs)] [x (param)]))
00:57 rudybot: eli: Done.
00:57 eli: rudybot: p
00:57 rudybot: eli: ; Value: #f
00:58 eli: rudybot: (set! p 1234)
00:58 rudybot: eli: Done.
00:58 eli: rudybot: (* p 10)
00:58 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 12340
00:58 eli: rudybot: (param)
00:58 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 1234
00:58 eli: Quetzalcoatl_: ^
00:58 Quetzalcoatl_: What happens to the original (set!)?
00:58 eli: Nothing.
00:58 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: init racket
00:58 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: your sandbox is ready
00:59 Quetzalcoatl_: (define-syntax p (syntax-id-rules (set!) [(set! x e) (param e)] [(x . xs) ((param) . xs)] [x (param)]))
00:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (define-syntax p (syntax-id-rules (set!) [(set! x e) (param e)] [(x . xs) ((param) . xs)] [x (param)]))
00:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: Done.
00:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (define not-a-parameter #f)
00:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: Done.
00:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (set! not-a-parameter #t)
00:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: Done.
01:00 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: not-a-parameter
01:00 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: ; Value: #t
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03:05 eli: samth_: ping
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04:36 Demosthenes: gah, log always prints out "#<continuation-mark-set>", any way to turn that off?
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04:55 ohwow: http://wezfurlong.org/blog/2004/jan/linux-on-windows/ oh wow
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06:39 Demosthenes: omg brain fart, how do you zero pad a string on print?
06:42 Demosthenes: gha, its not printf, its string-pad! ;]
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06:59 Quetzalcoatl_: There's only one problem with string-pad.
06:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: init racket
06:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: your sandbox is ready
06:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (require srfi/13)
06:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: Done.
06:59 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (string-pad "1234" 2 #\0)
06:59 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: ; Value: "34"
07:00 Quetzalcoatl_: rudybot: (list (string-pad "1234" 2 #\0) '<-- 'truncated 'value)
07:00 rudybot: Quetzalcoatl_: ; Value: ("34" <-- truncated value)
07:15 eli: rudybot: (real->decimal-string 1/3 4)
07:15 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "0.3333"
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08:03 tim-brown: is there any way to dump the current readtable in a re-parseable way?
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08:30 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 23777f2 (4 files in 3 dirs): avoid flock() under Solaris
08:30 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 22702a7 (1 files in 1 dirs): typo
08:30 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 0aefb8d (2 files in 1 dirs): avoid `single' as a C variable name ...
08:30 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 3100916...0aefb8d - http://bit.ly/lCZdbF
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09:17 eli: tim-brown: No.  It contains random closures.
09:20 tim-brown: fair enough
09:21 Quetzalcoatl_: Is there a built-in function to write a bitmap% to disk? I could only find the function to read bitmaps.
09:28 hkBst: how do you convert integers to their string representations?
09:35 (part) tim-brown
09:50 Quetzalcoatl_: hkBst: number->string
09:51 hkBst: thanks Quetzalcoatl_ :)
09:51 Quetzalcoatl_: np
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10:03 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 00e17ab (2 files in 2 dirs): adjust Guide to warn about performance measurement in DrRacket - http://bit.ly/lCRFpS
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10:39 ApeShot: So I am trying to send a canvas% instance a refresh-now message via `(send canvas refresh-now)` and I am told canvas has no such method.
10:39 ApeShot: The docs indicate it does.
10:39 ApeShot: Is something out of date?
10:39 offby1 sniffs
10:40 offby1: yeah, it's that cantaloupe in the fridge
10:40 offby1: P.U.
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10:42 ApeShot: I can't even send a regular old refresh message
10:42 ApeShot: Same error
10:42 ApeShot: The Racket object system has always seemed pretty unlispy to me.  Kind of wish the GUI was based on TinyClos
10:43 offby1: maybe your "canvas" variable isn't actually holding a canvas%
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10:44 ApeShot: > canvas
10:44 ApeShot: #(struct:object:canvas% ...)
10:44 ApeShot: >
10:44 (quit) jeapostrophe: Client Quit
10:44 ApeShot: (send canvas refresh-now)
10:44 ApeShot: send: no such method: refresh-now for class: canvas%
10:44 ApeShot: 
10:45 offby1: hmph
10:46 offby1: "Use the Source, Luke", I guess
10:47 stamourv: ApeShot: which version are you using, and which version of the docs are you looking at?
10:47 ApeShot: 5.0.2 for racket
10:48 ApeShot: And 5.1.1 for the docs
10:48 ApeShot: Might be the problem
10:48 ApeShot: Just a sec
10:49 stamourv: The GUI system was completely rewritten for 5.1, so a lot of things changed.
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10:50 ApeShot: Sure enough
10:50 ApeShot: Should update, I guess
10:50 ApeShot: Sorry for the trouble
10:50 stamourv: There's a lot of cool new stuff in 5.1.1.
10:50 stamourv: No problem :).
10:50 ApeShot: I am working on this kind of neat parallel turtle graphics thing which uses this weird state monad.
10:51 ApeShot: So you have orchestrate an arbitrary number of parallel turtles which can draw to a shared state
10:51 ApeShot: But it all looks like regular old single turtle code, for the most part.
10:51 ApeShot: It is weird
10:52 ApeShot: Bones and muscles are working.  Want to draw pretty pictures now.
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10:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * d314331 (1 files in 1 dirs): Added comments to atan.
10:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * fcf766c (7 files in 2 dirs): Prune dead code from Honu. ...
10:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * c5973be (1 files in 1 dirs): Add note about modules vs REPL in performance docs.
10:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 00e17ab...c5973be - http://bit.ly/lD0ZrY
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11:15 offby1: it's bones and muscles all the way down
11:20 ApeShot: Ok, things are working after the update.  Duh.
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12:24 RPR`: Darn I missed Matthew's broadcast this morning on twit.tv  Did he announce the move of Racket to JVM 7 yet?
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12:31 stamourv: RPR`: Isn't that tomorrow?
12:31 RPR`: The broadcast or the announcement?
12:32 RPR`: broadcast is tomorrow.
12:32 RPR`: my bad
12:33 jonrafkind: eli, scribble and vim? where did you get such an idea
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12:43 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 011d43b (1 files in 1 dirs): Add require syntax for multiple files in the same directory/collect.
12:43 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 5e87097 (1 files in 1 dirs): Document the sub-in require syntax.
12:43 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits c5973be...5e87097 - http://bit.ly/lQ3DYo
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12:53 offby1: is string-append O(n) in the length of the first argument, as append is?
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13:24 PLT_Notify: racket: master John Clements * dcb5e89 (2 files in 2 dirs): added raise-type-error to date->string, also test case - http://bit.ly/lAQwKn
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13:36 flazz: i installed racket via homebrew, what is the best way to get DrRacket?
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13:38 jonrafkind: is homebrew some osx thing?
13:41 flazz: yep
13:42 jonrafkind: well so what did homebrew install exactly
13:42 jonrafkind: just the racket executable?
13:43 flazz: i think all the stuff it installs when building from src, because it did
13:43 flazz: i have the docs for drracket, but i can't find an executable
13:44 jonrafkind: do you have gracket?
13:44 flazz: nope
13:52 ohwow: http://funcall.blogspot.com/2011/03/tail-recursion-and-debugging.html
13:52 ohwow: inb4 old
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14:07 stamourv: offby1: I don't know. If you're in the mind for benchmarking/source-diving, I'll add the answer to the documentation.
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14:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * cc647f0 (1 files in 1 dirs): use container sequence to avoid resize flicker for `text-field%'
14:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * f46edbe (1 files in 1 dirs): fix doc typo
14:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits dcb5e89...f46edbe - http://bit.ly/kqjFrX
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16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Tony Garnock-Jones * 9ce0f9d (1 files in 1 dirs): Minor cleanup of documentation for make-impersonator-property.
16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Tony Garnock-Jones * 7615c2a (3 files in 3 dirs): Implementation, documentation and tests for adding a failure-result to property accessor procedures.
16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 2cddccf (1 files in 1 dirs): Improve docs for sub-in.
16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 5352593 (1 files in 1 dirs): Have TR optimize at the REPL.
16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * c7d2f13 (1 files in 1 dirs): Preserve source location in the optimizer.
16:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 5c5e603...c7d2f13 - http://bit.ly/kFBH91
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16:55 eli: jonrafkind: Missed the "scribble" part.
16:56 jonrafkind: ok
16:56 eli: tim-brown: You could try some texinfo mode.
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19:48 (nick) ec|detached -> elliottcable
19:48 samth: elliottcable: still looking forward to your mailing list response :)
19:51 elliottcable: Oh, jesus, samth; I’d completely forgotten about that!
19:51 elliottcable: mabye tomorrow? Hrm. Gotta drive a dog up to Cary, though. Ugh.
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19:55 samth: elliottcable: we do want to know what you think
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19:55 samth: i think the most important parts are how you navigated the web site and documentation
19:57 elliottcable: samth: certainly! I just have to find the time. It’s a bit daunting; I remember there being something like 40 replies last time I remembered it; I would feel bad if I didn’t reply to each one in detail.
19:58 samth: elliottcable: I think this is the most important question to answer: http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive/2011-May/045483.html
19:58 elliottcable: samth: `fork`s are easy to understand. It boils down to this: Since Paws is so massively asynchronous, very early on in the design process we realized it would be problematic to have parts of the program depending on other parts, which themselves were dependant upon various external bounds such as I/O; and then having those other parts provide data at inopportune times.
19:58 elliottcable: er, crap. Wrong channel, wrong person.
19:59 samth: :)
20:00 samth: elliottcable: secondarily, this message: http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive/2011-May/045484.html
20:01 samth: elliottcable: those are really the only ones that ask questions of you
20:01 samth: although the second one is long :)
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