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00:21 eli: offby1: The `racket-textual' is actually a kind of a minimal core racket.
00:22 offby1: pff
00:23 offby1: poor name, then; perhaps it should be called "racket-minimal"
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00:35 eli: offby1: Yeah, it will be.  It will turn into the main distribution, which will be minimal-ish, and will ask you which additional packages you want to install.
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06:27 hkBst_: I'm trying to implement a toy graphical program to get a feel for GUI programming in racket. Basic idea is a graphical representation of a list with text-field%s alternated with buttons to insert items and on the side of each text-field% a button to remove that item. When the program is destroyed it should print the constructed list on the console (when started from one). My understanding so far calls for a doubly-linked list to hold the items (and
06:27 hkBst_: their graphical manifestation), although this seems very unlispy... Is there a better way?
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06:55 eli: hkBst_: That sounds like a bad solution.
06:56 eli: The buttons could simply work by position, so hitting the 3rd remove button removes the third input and the *last* remove button.  (And it can be used to remove the new third.)
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07:37 hkBst_: eli: thanks for that fresh perspective; I hadn't thought about it that way :)
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07:40 eli: hkBst_: My guess is that your instinct was to make the callback a closure that is aware of the gui object it belongs to.
07:40 eli: But the problem is that the interface is not really good at accomodating that.
07:40 eli: (A result of the gui system it's built on...)
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07:41 hkBst_: eli: yes, indeed that was my instinct
07:46 hkBst_: eli: current code is here http://pastebin.ca/2067540
07:47 hkBst_ goes back to the drawingboard
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07:55 hkBst_: eli: for representing the data in memory a doubly linked list still seems like the best solution. Then it could be updated according to user input and the values of all text-fields could be updated from its list of values... How does that sound?
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08:20 eli: hkBst_: I don't see much difference...
08:20 eli: But it's likely that you'll get better opinions if you ask on the list.
08:21 eli: (I'm not doing much gui.)
08:21 hkBst_: ok thanks eli
08:23 tim-brown: is anyone out there using a vim syntax for scribble?
08:25 eli: tim-brown: jonranfkind is, but he's rarely in this early.
08:25 eli: s/rarely/never/
08:27 tim-brown: eli: thanks, i'll look out for him
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09:01 tim-brown: when I make install -- raco setup keeps growing to about 300MB then
09:01 tim-brown: " Racket virtual machine has run out of memory; aborting"
09:01 tim-brown: is there any way to make install in parts, so that raco doesn't grow so large?
09:03 eli: tim-brown: Compilation tends to be intense -- it would be easier to increase the limit for that.
09:03 eli: Otherwise, you can just try to run it a few times, and let it compile more files in each step...
09:03 eli: Also, there's a useful `-D' flag to avoid building the docs, if you don't need them.
09:04 tim-brown: when i break and restart make install, it starts from scratch.
09:04 bremner_: tim-brown: are you on some BSD system? it sometimes has some low ulimits.  Also systems with very low swap can make racket think it is out of memory rather early.
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09:05 tim-brown: ah... the limit is a ulimit? -- makes sense...
09:05 tim-brown: i'm monitoring swap, and it seems to be available
09:06 bremner_: what is "ulimit -d"
09:06 tim-brown: only seems to be limited on stack=10240k and nofiles=409
09:07 bremner_: hmm. that's not it then. Which garbage collector are you using (3m is the default, but some systems fall back to boehm cgc)
09:07 bremner_: raco setup -D should get you a usable system without docs as eli says.
09:08 bremner_: ah, except the invocation is a bit weird from make install.  perhaps 'export PLT_SETUP_OPTIONS="-j1 -D"'
09:09 bremner_: darn, should be "-j 1 -D"
09:09 tim-brown: what's the -j ?
09:09 eli: tim-brown: There's a largish chunk in the beginning, when it says "bootstrapping from source" -- that compiles the things that are needed for the compiler.  If you run out of memory during that stage, then you'll have to increase the memory limit.
09:09 bremner_: tim-brown: -j 1 means use one worker thread
09:09 bremner_: instead of maxing the machine out
09:11 tim-brown: right... rerunning... fingers crossed and all thatl
09:17 tim-brown: nah... out of memory
09:17 tim-brown: eli suggested running setup a number of times.
09:17 tim-brown: i have a /usr/local/bim/racket
09:17 tim-brown: and i have a source directory
09:17 tim-brown: AFAICT i have no "raco"
09:17 tim-brown: how do i perform a "raco setup"?
09:24 eli: tim-brown: But only if it goes beyond the bootstrap step.  Otherwise it doesn't get to compile any file.
09:24 eli: If you paste the output I can say more.
09:25 eli: As for running raco setup, you can use this instead: racket -N raco -l- raco setup -j 1 -D
09:25 eli: (where the stuff after "raco setup" are the flags to pass it.)
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09:57 tim-brown: i'm in a zone (on solaris) and might be further limited in my resource usage than I'd have first thought.
09:58 tim-brown: fyi:
09:58 tim-brown: env CFLAGS="-g -O2  -Wall " LDFLAGS=""  racket/racket3m -X "/usr/local/lib/racket/collects" -N "raco setup" -l- setup    --no-user
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: bootstrapping from source...
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: version: 5.1 [3m]
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: variants: 3m
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: main collects: /usr/local/lib/racket/collects
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: collects paths:
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup:   /usr/local/lib/racket/collects
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: --- pre-installing collections ---
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: --- compiling collections ---
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup: making: 2htdp (HtDP/2e Teachpacks)
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup:  in 2htdp
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup:  in racket/gui/lang
09:58 tim-brown: ...
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup:  in r5rs
09:58 tim-brown: raco setup:  in r5rs/private
09:58 tim-brown: Racket virtual machine has run out of memory; aborting
09:59 tim-brown: Abort - core dumped
09:59 tim-brown: gmake[1]: *** [install-3m] Error 134
09:59 tim-brown: gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/tim/racket-5.1/src/SunOS-5.10-i386'
09:59 tim-brown: gmake: *** [install] Error 2
09:59 tim-brown: # pstack core | head
09:59 tim-brown: core 'core' of 22870:   racket/racket3m -X /usr/local/lib/racket/collects -N raco setup -l- se
09:59 tim-brown: fecf9315 _lwp_kill (1, 6) + 15
09:59 tim-brown: feca1d73 raise    (6) + 1f
09:59 tim-brown: fec81bbd abort    (4000, ffffc000, 80349fc, 81e6922, 44000, 1) + cd
09:59 tim-brown: 0806b281 scheme_out_of_memory_abort (44000, 1, 8034a2c, 81eaa63, 3fff, 0) + 21
09:59 tim-brown: 081e6922 out_of_memory (3fff, 0, 44000, 0, 8465ca4, 8473148) + 2a
09:59 tim-brown: 081eaa63 malloc_pages (4000, 1, 0, 1, 86345d8, 86344c8) + 16f
09:59 tim-brown: 081eb624 GC_mark2 (c11bd5a0, 8264af0, 5, 8783fe4, 8660370, 8660394) + 508
09:59 tim-brown: 081d5a6f bucket_table_val_MARK (8660370, 8264af0, 8047c20, 0) + 17
09:59 tim-brown: 081eb90e propagate_marks (8264af0, 8264af0, 8034afc, 0, 8264af0, 8264af0) + 82
09:59 tim-brown: deffo out of memory
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10:08 eli: tim-brown: (I meant paste on some page...  But pstack is nice -- I didn't know about it!)
10:08 eli: tim-brown: In any case, it does make some progress, so just run the setup part again as I showed you earlier.
10:09 ohwow: hello
10:09 bremner_: it could be the racket out of memory heuristic is confused by Solaris.
10:11 eli: Bah.  pstack doesn't work on a core file on linux.
10:11 eli: bremner_: In any case he's getting some progress, so just running raco setup instead of restarting a build can lead to actually getting practical results.
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10:12 bremner_: right. Might be worth a question to the list, maybe mflatt has an idea how to fix that.
10:13 bremner_: at least, I couldn't stump him with these kind of questions yet ;)
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10:15 tim-brown: sorry bout that... bit of an IRC noob
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10:22 tim-brown: running the "racket... raco setup" and seems to be getting some traction now!
10:24 tim-brown: Ooh, this racket seems to return memory to the OS?
10:24 tim-brown: I didn't see the one from "make install" shrinking; and that was a 3m racket, too.
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10:32 tim-brown: yay! it's built 5.1 -- that is. thanks for all the help guys
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11:41 BufferUnderpants: Hello folks
11:42 BufferUnderpants: I'm having a weird problem with floating point numbers  (and Dr Racket, I presume?)
11:43 BufferUnderpants: Racket seems to just truncate them
11:43 BufferUnderpants: e.g if I input 0.5 in the REPL, it prints 0
11:43 BufferUnderpants: Ditto for the debugger
11:44 BufferUnderpants: This is on Ubuntu 11.04, with Racket 5.1
11:44 bremner_: BufferUnderpants: what locale?
11:45 BufferUnderpants: Spanish
11:45 BufferUnderpants: I'll change it and try again...
11:45 ohwow: Is MrSpidey still around?
11:46 ohwow: Is it some sort of type-evaluation system?
11:49 BufferUnderpants: I changed it from Dr Racket, and the problem persists.
11:49 BufferUnderpants: I'll try to download a fresh copy from racket-lang.org
11:49 BufferUnderpants: I think I built this one myself, but I don't think that should happen either...
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11:52 eli: BufferUnderpants: Are you using a teaching language?  Maybe post a screen shot?
11:52 eli: ohwow: MrSpidey is *very* dead.
11:53 ohwow: heh okay
11:53 ohwow: i was just reading some ancient talk
11:53 ohwow: The Swine Before Perl
11:54 ohwow: and they mentioned it, but I didn't understand the puprose of it
11:54 eli: That has references to mrspidey?
11:54 ohwow: yea
11:54 (quit) BufferUnderpants: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
11:54 ohwow: Shriram Krishnamurthi
11:54 ohwow: Brown University and PLT
11:54 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
11:54 eli: ohwow: (Yeah, I know who Shriram is very well...)
11:55 eli: ohwow: Oh, right, I forgot about the part before the meat of that talk.
11:56 ohwow: :)
11:56 eli: MrSpidey was followed by MrFlow and that died too -- and now we have typed racket.
11:57 ohwow: It's crazy how much you guys did
11:57 ohwow: a great deal of work
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12:17 eli: ohwow: Soft typing etc were kind of a major theme in the project since very early on.
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13:59 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 7b0f64d (1 files in 1 dirs): Don't run TR integration tests during nightly builds. - http://bit.ly/jaztMW
13:59 (part) PLT_Notify
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14:05 PLT_Notify: racket: master Eli Barzilay * 7f6733b (1 files in 1 dirs): Go down boxes too.
14:05 PLT_Notify: racket: master Eli Barzilay * 3100916 (1 files in 1 dirs): Make it possible to hook up a "newsflash" below the left blurb.
14:05 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 7b0f64d...3100916 - http://bit.ly/maRjUM
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14:11 eli: samth: ping
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16:05 jonrafkind: can functions defined with `define/contract' not have default arguments?
16:24 jonrafkind: clklein, ping
16:24 clklein: jonrafkind: pong
16:25 jonrafkind: i get a contract violation that points at a file, but i wanted the line number that called my function
16:25 jonrafkind: how can I get that
16:26 clklein: jonrafkind: I don't think you can. This bothers me too.
16:27 jonrafkind: ok well uh.. some function in my 2000 line program is calling this other function wrong, i have no idea which function
16:28 jonrafkind: ffffffffffffffffff stack traces...
16:28 clklein: I've asked Robby about it. If I remember his response correctly, one contract wrapper is created for each importing module. You'd need to create a distinct wrapper for each place the function appears in the source to do better.
16:29 clklein: I don't know if there's some kind of performance problem with that or if it just doesn't work for some reason. It seems pretty useful to me, though.
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16:30 jonrafkind: yea i mean im willing to sacrifice basically 100x performance loss if I can get better debug information
16:31 clklein: Might be worth asking on the list. FWIW, I'll chime in saying I've wanted a better error too.
16:31 clklein: bbl
16:33 RPR`: typed/racket would probably pickup the error
16:34 jonrafkind: unlikely
16:35 RPR`: how would you know that?  I would think typed/racket would pickup pretty much 100% anything which caused a contract violation.
16:36 jonrafkind: because typed/racket doesn't play nicely with phase 1
16:37 RPR`: I'm rusty.  You're getting a contract violation during syntax expansion?
16:37 jonrafkind: yes
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21:54 eli: samth: Did you get the email?
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