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00:44 Demosthenes: match is cool, but now i'm thinking case-lambda ;]
00:45 Sgeo: Can I use things like the sync stuff without using threads?
00:46 offby1: not sure if that makes any sense.
00:47 Sgeo: I know of at least one system that uses events in a single-threaded way
00:47 Sgeo: Not necessarily Racket events though
00:47 offby1: well, the answer is "sure"
00:48 offby1: and now that I'm looking, there seem to be plenty of synchronizable events ... many seem useless if you only have one thread, but some might be useful
00:48 offby1: you can sync a port,e.g.
00:48 offby1: But then you could also just read from it, which blocks as well
00:48 offby1: you could sync an alarm.
00:48 offby1: You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.
00:49 Sgeo: Well, I'd be making my own events
00:49 offby1: sure are a lot of synchronizable events.
00:49 Sgeo: And triggering them as needed
00:49 offby1: oh?  as far as I know the only way to do that is to make 'em a struct, and give 'em the magick prop:evt property
00:50 Sgeo: Sounds easy enough
00:50 offby1: well, the question is: how would you trigger them?  If your racket program has only one thread, the trigger would have to come from the outside world
00:50 Sgeo: The triggers would come from a C SDK
00:51 offby1: sounds like you know more about it than I do
00:51 Sgeo: But then again, why would it have to come from the outside world, and not a dispatcher written in Racket?
00:52 offby1: well, if your only thread is blocked on this thing, how would the dispatcher code run?
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00:52 Sgeo: Um...
00:52 Sgeo: I wouldn't allow blocking, I guess.... unless continuations were in use?
00:53 Sgeo: Maybe I should use threading, figure out how that would fit into this model
00:53 offby1: isn't blocking the whole point of "sync" ?
00:53 Sgeo: SDK is not considered thread-safe, but I think I can work around that
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00:55 Sgeo: Although actually, can I make the blocking action do something other than a block?
00:55 Sgeo: Can I make it call a function of my choosing?
00:55 Sgeo: Such that I can abuse continuations?
00:55 offby1 stares blankly
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04:11 wwwd: Is there anything like pycon for racket?
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08:30 jules2: in a macro, can you determine which variables are bound?
08:31 jules2: for example, in a pattern matching library you could have a (mlet <pattern>) form, that could work like this: (mlet (= a 2) ...) binds a to 2, similarly (mlet (= 2 a) ...) binds a to 2
08:32 jules2: but what about it b in bound in the environment, and a is unbound then do (mlet (= a b) ...) should expand to something like (let ((a b)) ...), but (mlet (= b a) ...) should expand to (let ((a b)) ...) too
08:33 DT``: jules2, expand the mlet inside your macro (using local-expand), then check for `let's.
08:34 jules2: DT``, I mean my question is how to write mlet
08:34 jules2: a simpler question would be: can you write a macro (bound? v) that expands to #t if v is bound and #f if v is not bound
08:35 DT``: oh.
08:35 DT``: yes, there's identifier-binding.
08:35 DT``: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxcmp.html?q=identifier-binding#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._identifier-binding))
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08:38 jules2: hmm, that seems exactly what i'm looking for except:
08:38 jules2: The result is #f if id-stx has a top-level binding (or, equivalently, if it is unbound).
08:38 jules2: so it is not possible to distinguish between top level bindings and unbound
08:38 DT``: top-level != module-level.
08:39 DT``: the top-level is the repl (this definition may be wrong)
08:40 jules2: oh, ok :)
08:40 jules2: thanks :)
08:40 DT``: np.
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09:39 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * b44f217 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix 'exact-chars Latex rendering for `multiarg-element' - http://bit.ly/iw32Vd
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10:13 samth_away: DT``, you're right about the top leve
10:13 samth_away: l
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12:14 samth: mattmight, the PLDI schedule page is the ugliest single page on the web
12:15 mattmight: :)
12:16 samth: i blame you for choosing to do everything in MS Word :)
12:16 mattmight: Hah.
12:16 mattmight: They sent me word docs.
12:16 mattmight: I wish they'd just sent me latex or even XML.
12:17 mattmight: They also update that schedule about once a week.
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12:19 samth: oh, so maybe my talk has moved
12:20 samth: nope
12:25 samth: eli, ping
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12:38 eli: samth: ?
12:39 samth: eli, is it reasonable to use `meta/web' for other web pages
12:39 samth: in particular, to generate a single piece of html
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12:40 eli: samth: I don't understand the question.
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12:41 samth: eli, i want to use meta/web to write my personal web page
12:41 samth: what should i do to build the page
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12:42 samth: imagine i have a file `index.rkt' with the whole page
12:42 samth: how do i generate html?
12:42 eli: samth: Ah.
12:42 eli: There's two pieces -- scribble/html is the generic code for generating html.  (And yes, I know it should be documented, I still didn't announc it because I didn't get to do it.)
12:43 eli: The other piece is meta/web which is supposed to be useful for racket pages.
12:43 samth: ok, so i should just use scribble/html
12:43 eli: So if you want your own page to look like a racket page, then use racket/web.
12:43 eli: Probably.
12:44 samth: so, once i have a page written in scribble/html, what do i do to generate html?
12:44 eli: Perhaps some parts of meta/web should be genralized, but there's too many options to make something more universal.
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12:46 samth: eli, so, how do i run a page in scribble/html?
12:47 eli: samth: It's similar to `scribble/text' -- if you use it as a `#lang', then it's text with html tags as functions, and generates the output when you run it.
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12:48 eli: But using (require scribble/html) is generally more useful in this case if you want a single file that produces multiple pages.
12:49 eli: And then you'd use the resource thing to create each page.
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12:58 samth: what resource thing?
13:00 samth: eli, writing things in scribble/html is totally useless
13:09 eli: samth: re resources, see the top of "scribble/html/resource.rkt".
13:09 eli: re "writing things", I don't understand the commnt.
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14:02 loopole: hi racket ppl
14:03 loopole: I'm trying to build a C extension with link to static lib, should this be possible?
14:04 loopole: when I load-extension, I get a "Symbol not found"
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14:40 bmp: Is there a more generic equivalent to with-input-from-file that you can use on any port to ensure it gets closed? I'm coming from Python, and thinking of a kind of equivalent to with blocks.
14:42 bmp: E.g., if I just wanted to quickly slurp in a URL, I could do (port->string (get-pure-port (string->url "http://google.com"))), but this leaks a port until the custodian gets shut down, as near as I can tell.
14:43 bmp: I feel that I must be missing a more common idiom.
14:47 eli: bmp: No, these ports should be GCed.
14:49 bmp: eli: So, in Racket, the GC actually *does* handle closing file handles and the like?
14:50 samth: eli, i don't see how to write a file that when run, produces an html page, but has arbitrary racket requires and such
14:50 eli: bmp: Not files.
14:50 bmp: So, sockets, but not files.
14:50 bmp: So it's port-specific.
14:51 eli: I think that files are special, and I think that tcp ports are fine -- but you can just try it.
14:52 eli: samth: Huh?  If you're talking about `#lang scribble/html', then you just @(require something) as usual.
14:53 samth: eli, if i do that, it puts the require in the output
14:54 samth: actually, no, it doesn't seem to do anything at all
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14:54 dyoo: anyone familiar with syntax/modcode
14:54 eli: samth: This doesn't make any sense.  Put your file somewhere and I'll look.
14:55 dyoo: trying to figure out how to use it.  I try: (get-module-code 'racket/base), and it errors
14:59 samth: eli, can you just write a trivial file that uses scribble/html and tell me how to run it?
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15:07 samth: ok, eli, i think i've got it
15:07 samth: i don't know what i was doing wrong before
15:13 eli: samth: But still, I think that for a set of web pages it wouldn't be what you want.
15:14 eli: The `#lang' version is mostly useful for things like generating text for a blog post, or for a single page thing.
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15:27 samth: eli, my web page is a single page
15:27 samth: also, is there a way to put in literal output?
15:29 eli: samth: if it is, then you'll be an exception where the #lang setup works fine...
15:29 eli: (The resource stuff can still be useful for you though -- it's useful in cases where you want to create any file, like a css file, or some file for downloading, or even some file to create a symlink to.)
15:30 eli: As for literal output, IIRC, you should use `literal'.
15:31 eli: That should be used only in cases where you have some content that you know is valid html, or in places where you want to have some literal text in, like inside a script block.
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15:57 Demosthenes: is anyone making business gui apps in racket ?
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16:44 offby1 watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St
16:45 offby1: Demosthenes: the one group I know of who are using Racket commercially are "untyped" (http://www.untyped.com/) but I think they're mostly web-based stuff
16:48 samth: Demosthenes, Doug Williams at SET Corp is developing GUI apps in Racket
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17:22 Demosthenes: neat
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17:53 Demosthenes: i'd heard clojure had been catching on because the apps could be easily deployed ...
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22:32 Demosthenes: hrm, the irony. common lisp has "heritage" and "staying power" but packaging apps in it is nigh impossible. raco exec, bing! ;]
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