00:06 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
00:23 (join) yoklov
00:29 (join) realitygrill_
00:30 (quit) realitygrill: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
00:30 (nick) realitygrill_ -> realitygrill
00:42 (quit) yoklov: Quit: Leaving.
00:44 Nican: Hey, does anybody know where to find a website already made in racket? I am looking for some examples to follow and do not seem to find any
00:48 jonrafkind: have you seen this? http://docs.racket-lang.org/continue/index.html
00:52 rpr: Nican: Most of the backend code is in Racket, front server is in Scala, UI is all JS/HTML5 in the browser. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jaccigkfdmcemjkpencdmgkifgednjab
00:53 Nican: Hm, just another question, how does Racket handle connections? One thread per connection? Max # of threads? Event based?
00:54 jonrafkind: racket uses green threads, so they are light-weight
00:55 Nican: Thanks
01:04 (join) EM03
01:08 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
01:22 (join) ckrailo
01:23 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
01:42 (quit) realitygrill: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
01:42 (join) realitygrill
02:08 EM03: can someone please tell me what the #lang is all about
02:09 EM03: like #lang slideshow ....isn't this just the racket language or what not?
02:09 (quit) realitygrill: Quit: realitygrill
02:16 (quit) rpr: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
02:41 (join) hkBst
03:47 (quit) ckrailo: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
04:35 (join) MayDaniel
05:02 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
05:53 (join) masm
06:53 bremner_: EM03: did you see http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/hash-languages.html?q=%23lang ?
06:53 EM03: yes i did read that bremner_
06:59 bremner_: EM03: it might help to look at the scribble documentation, where you can see #lang scribble/base is really different from #lang racket/base. Or compare #lang typed/racket
07:02 EM03: i just want to know why the web server stuff is its own language
07:03 EM03: that sounds like a bad idea? I understand why racket typed is that way
07:04 bremner_: why is it a bad idea?
07:06 bremner_: It looks to me like the template stuff extends the language syntax, for example.
07:32 EM03: bremner_: I did not notice that
07:32 EM03: maybe this is perception but it almost feels like I'm sorta locked in while doing that
07:33 bremner_: EM03: every file can be in it's own language.
07:33 EM03: I see
07:34 EM03: but from the web server lang what if I want racket date stuff can I easily load that?
07:35 DT``: EM03, the same require you'd do with #lang racket{,/base}.
07:36 EM03: so do they share modules? I should probably read more on this but finding out how the whole lang structure works does take time
07:37 DT``: yeah, if you write something with #lang racket you can load it even from #lang r5rs.
07:38 EM03: yea I will give a try in a minute .......I have only been using this  stuff for a few days
07:38 DT``: #langs are just modules that provide the basic stuff (#%app, #%module-begin, ...).
07:38 EM03: although I'm a fairly fast learner it does take time
07:39 DT``: I was pretty confused at first as well.
07:39 EM03: and the scheme books i was reading was mit scheme stuff so only the basic stuff carried over
07:42 EM03: and it was really old ....even if it did cover racket/plt scheme it would probably be out of date heavily
07:43 DT``: even if it doesn't cover the #lang thing, you may want to read HtDP for something racket-related.
07:51 (join) mrjohnson
07:52 mrjohnson: Hello - I'm having trouble finding some of the lisp functions that i normally expect to find - sum for example. i don't know if i'm not looking in the right place or is racket more minimalistic so it doesn't include these functions? is there a good library of them? thanks
07:53 ohwow: mrjohnson: well (sum lst) is (apply + lst) or (foldl + 0 lst)
07:53 bremner_: mrjohnson: did you try searching in docs.racket-lang.org ?
07:53 eli: mrjohnson: I don't know of a lisp with a standard `sum' function.
07:54 mrjohnson: ok, was coming from haskell
07:54 eli: In any case, (apply + list) is one way, (foldl + 0 lisp) is another.
07:55 eli: s/lisp/list/
07:55 mrjohnson: ok, thanks
07:56 EM03: how long did it take you to get fluent in scheme DT`` ?
07:58 DT``: EM03, about one week or two, coming from C.
07:59 mrjohnson: you always use foldl for commutative ops don't you? only use foldr when you have a specific reason right?
07:59 DT``: in racket, I'm still playing with the standard library, module system, etc.
07:59 ohwow: mrjohnson: well it doesnt really matter, IMO
08:00 DT``: mrjohnson, I tend to use foldl even for right folds.
08:00 ohwow: ...
08:00 DT``: I reverse the result/argument/accumulator/I don't remember now.
08:01 eli: mrjohnson: If you're coming from Haskell, then one thing you need to be aware of is that `foldl's are much more common than `foldr's, because it's usually more efficient.  (In Haskell it's kind of the reverse, IIRC.)
08:03 elliott: In Haskell, foldls are more efficient than foldr in most cases, yes.
08:03 elliott: However foldr works on infinite lists and foldls don't.
08:03 elliott: (foldl' is pretty much usually the fastest option but there are cases where this does not apply.)
08:04 elliott: Of course the infinite list distinction is quite irrelevant for Racket.
08:04 elliott: (Well, unless they generalise somehow to a potentially-infinite list type, but that's hardly the common case.)
08:06 EM03: DT``: how long have you been using it?
08:07 DT``: EM03, ~6 months, started with MIT/GNU Scheme and SICP.
08:07 DT``: elliott, there are streams in racket, but stream-fold is, afaik, a left fold.
08:08 elliott: DT``: Odd to have a fold on a type distinguished by its potential to be infinite in length which can only complete successfully on arguments that are finite.
08:08 elliott: Hmm, wait.
08:09 elliott: Right fold wouldn't terminate, either, since Racket is a strict language.
08:09 elliott: Never mind.
08:16 (quit) mrjohnson: Quit: Page closed
09:03 (join) dnolen
09:14 (quit) elliott: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
09:44 (join) stevenbracket
09:45 stevenbracket: hello - what is the difference between square and round parens? (let ([x 12]) x) seems to be the same as (let ((x 12)) x), but the docs give the former
09:51 DT``: stevenbracket, nothing, it only changes the 'paren-shape property of its syntax, which is something you only care when writing crazy wacky macros.
09:57 (join) leo2007
10:01 stevenbracket: do people just do it for clarity then?
10:04 bremner_: plus it irritates certain lisp purists, as a bonus
10:17 (quit) stevenbracket: Quit: Page closed
10:19 (join) realitygrill
10:23 (quit) realitygrill: Read error: Connection reset by peer
10:23 (join) realitygrill
10:25 (quit) hkBst: Read error: Connection reset by peer
10:41 offby1: I've got a mystery: my IRC bot rudybot is suddenly exiting soon after startup, and I cannot figure out why
10:41 offby1: its source lives in git, and it's the same code that used to work properly.
10:41 offby1: this is happening on more than one machine, so I suppose the problem might be elsewhere, but I can't think of where.
10:41 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
10:42 offby1: I wonder if some PLaneT package on which it depends is calling "exit" ... but I can't think of how to debug it.
10:42 offby1: when running under gdb, it seems to hang forever at startup; I don't know why
10:45 (join) carleastlund
10:46 (join) yoklov
10:46 (join) Zorlin
11:07 (quit) Sgeo: Read error: Connection reset by peer
11:08 (nick) samth_away -> samth
11:10 samth: offby1, sad
11:11 samth: offby1, try running under `strace'
11:14 offby1: did that already.  Not illuminating; all I can see is that it eventually calls "exit".
11:14 offby1: If something in PLaneT is calling "exit", I don't know how to catch it in the act.
11:15 bremner_: offby1: did you try the drracket debugger?
11:15 samth: bremner_, sadly that probably won't help
11:15 samth: offby1, i recommend printf
11:16 bremner_: samth: agreed. But I don't any good suggestions.
11:16 samth: and/or adding dumb marked syscalls that you can see in strace
11:17 offby1: bremner_: yes, but I can't figure out how to get it to work
11:17 offby1: I'd love to be able to know what Scheme code is calling 'exit' but cannot figure out how to find out
11:21 DT``: parameterize the exit-handler to print a stacktrace or something?
11:22 offby1: hmm!
11:22 offby1: now that's an idea.
11:27 samth: offby1, try putting (begin-for-syntax (printf "in file foo\n")) at the top of every file
11:27 (join) MayDaniel
11:35 offby1: I think I'm invoking my main function wrong :)
11:35 (join) realitygrill_
11:38 (quit) realitygrill: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
11:38 (nick) realitygrill_ -> realitygrill
11:40 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
11:51 (quit) yoklov: Quit: Leaving.
12:03 (join) rudybot
12:04 offby1: rudybot: feeling better now?
12:04 rudybot: offby1: "I'm feeling twice as emotional. I always thought I would parade pregnant and now my turn has come," the TV presenter, who is rumored to have a collection of more than 1,000 bikinis, ..." <-- what an odd rumor to spread
12:07 offby1: for the record: I was starting the bot via "racket main.rkt", but in fact should have been doing "./main.rkt", since I have some shebang magic in there.
12:07 offby1 smites forehead
12:07 offby1: so my "main" function never got called.  But I could observe various side-effects of modules being loaded, so I thought the code was indeed running.
12:07 offby1: the bot's uptime is so great that I'd forgotten how to start it! :-)
12:11 (join) dnolen
12:12 (join) mithos28
12:30 (join) jonrafkind
12:55 (join) ckrailo
12:56 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
13:06 (join) PLT_Notify
13:06 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 8672f32 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix SGC debug mode
13:06 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 11445a9 (1 files in 1 dirs): remove obsolete hash handling in places deep copy
13:06 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 88dea4f (2 files in 2 dirs): places: fix problems with message receive
13:06 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 3b73fa1...88dea4f - http://bit.ly/lvoimc
13:06 (part) PLT_Notify
13:06 (quit) leo2007: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
13:14 (quit) petey-aw`: Quit: Coyote finally caught me
13:15 (join) petey-away
13:17 (quit) masm: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
13:21 (quit) petey-away: Quit: Coyote finally caught me
13:21 (join) petey-away
13:44 (join) mithos28
13:48 (join) lucian
13:51 (quit) lucian: Read error: Connection reset by peer
13:51 (join) lucian
13:53 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
13:54 (join) PLT_Notify
13:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Eli Barzilay * 7918d92 (1 files in 1 dirs): Fix documentation for `cycle'. ... - http://bit.ly/kXDhMg
13:54 (part) PLT_Notify
14:18 (join) mithos28
14:21 (join) PLT_Notify
14:21 PLT_Notify: racket: master Kevin Tew * 2bc97cc (1 files in 1 dirs): setup: change made to making ... - http://bit.ly/iKwFnC
14:21 (part) PLT_Notify
14:30 (join) masm
14:35 (join) anRch
15:25 jonrafkind: gentoo is slowly getting support for racket, its marked unstable in amd64
15:31 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
15:36 (join) Fare
16:06 (join) lisppaste
16:10 askhader: B==D   ->   B==========D
16:10 askhader: Excellent.
16:20 (quit) qha: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
16:39 (join) elliott
16:56 (join) qha
17:05 (join) PLT_Notify
17:05 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 8492f7c (5 files in 2 dirs): fix symbol handling in long-message transfer ... - http://bit.ly/lMsnhz
17:05 (part) PLT_Notify
17:16 (quit) Fare: Quit: Leaving
17:33 (quit) elliott: Read error: Connection reset by peer
17:40 (quit) chemuduguntar: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
17:52 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
17:54 (join) chemuduguntar
17:57 EM03: if i am in
17:57 jonrafkind: 42
17:57 (part) chandler
17:57 EM03: #lang web serv instance can I include regular #lang racket libraries for dates etc?
17:58 jonrafkind: yes
17:59 EM03: this whole #lang thing had my head spinning last night, I think i have it now
18:00 jonrafkind: you should try writing a lang yourself, its not really that hard
18:01 EM03: I'm 3-4 days into scheme in 2 weeks I will be fine
18:02 offby1: if I had more energy I'd make "arc" a proper #lang.
18:03 EM03: how are the performance of the "custom" languages over racket?
18:03 EM03: is it the same as racket? or lower?
18:04 jonrafkind: about the same
18:06 EM03: i see
18:09 (join) PLT_Notify
18:09 PLT_Notify: racket: master Ryan Culpepper * dc0138b (2 files in 2 dirs): minor doc fix (optional args last)
18:09 PLT_Notify: racket: master Ryan Culpepper * 56bb28d (2 files in 2 dirs): unstable/syntax: added explode-module-path-index
18:09 PLT_Notify: racket: master Ryan Culpepper * 761a402 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix warnings
18:09 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 8492f7c...761a402 - http://bit.ly/k9MirH
18:09 (part) PLT_Notify
18:12 samth: EM03, the other languages are usually similar to racket in performance, although Typed Racket is faster (it has an optimizer) and the lazy language is probably slower (it creates lots of promises)
18:13 bremner_: of course, that is execution after compilation.
18:13 EM03: How much better is typed racket than traditional racket?
18:13 EM03: I got a friend who just uses the typed version for reasons I don't know
18:14 samth: better in what sense?
18:17 EM03: execution speed
18:30 samth: TR can be substantially better
18:30 samth: see the benchmarks in this paper: http://bit.ly/langlib
18:34 (quit) carleastlund: Quit: carleastlund
18:53 (quit) ckrailo: Read error: Connection reset by peer
18:53 (join) ckrailo
18:58 (quit) dnolen: Quit: Page closed
19:01 (quit) jonrafkind: Read error: Operation timed out
19:31 (nick) samth -> samth_away
19:32 (quit) Checkie: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
19:36 (join) sheikra
19:38 (join) PLT_Notify
19:38 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * c163e75 (1 files in 1 dirs): make the generated name used for languages (introduced by define-language ... - http://bit.ly/jvVHIj
19:38 (part) PLT_Notify
19:41 sheikra: does typed racket support overloading?
20:03 (quit) masm: Read error: Operation timed out
20:19 (quit) lucian: Remote host closed the connection
20:26 (quit) sheikra: Quit: AndroIRC
20:26 (join) dnolen
20:32 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
20:33 (quit) Zorlin: Read error: Connection reset by peer
20:40 (join) dnolen
20:44 (join) Lajla
20:45 (part) Lajla
21:03 (quit) ckrailo: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
21:24 (join) Demosthenes
22:15 EM03: Things are essentially clicking in many ways
22:15 EM03: I guess I was having a implementation issue than a language one
22:19 EM03: so is it common to mix and match all of these different #langs?
22:20 (join) SeanTAllen
22:20 (quit) SeanTAllen: Client Quit
22:20 (join) PLT_Notify
22:20 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * 1db3ae3 (7 files in 2 dirs): fixed up printing ~s vs ~a in contract system and made the contract tests run in drdr - http://bit.ly/luI7oz
22:20 (part) PLT_Notify
22:26 (quit) Demosthenes: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
22:33 (join) Demosthenes
23:12 (quit) Demosthenes: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
23:13 (join) mithos28
23:29 (join) jonrafkind
23:32 (join) Checkie
23:45 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
23:56 (join) dnolen