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05:49 Blkt: good day everyone
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09:42 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * ddbb3b0 (3 files in 2 dirs): win32 places: make break-signal semaphore place-local - http://bit.ly/kkSeSw
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10:34 bremner_: Does anyone have experience to share teaching second year students with 2 courses of Java from HTDP?
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10:35 bremner_: you have to parse that right to avoid teaching Java from HTDP, which would be a challenge.
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11:03 yoklov: This doesn't really answer your question in the slightest, but the school I attend does it. the honor's intro CS course is based on scheme (from SICP though, not HTDP), second semester course is java
11:04 bremner_: yeah, same programming languages, pretty different approach
11:04 yoklov: yeah
11:05 bremner_: how are you finding it?
11:05 yoklov: I just took the SICP class and loved it
11:05 yoklov: taking the java one over the summer
11:05 yoklov: but, that hasn't started yet, I imagine it won't be that hard.
11:07 (nick) lucian_ -> lucian
11:09 yoklov: I don't think the imperative paradigm is that hard for someone with little experience in it to learn if they understood functional programming.  I've been teaching myself C from K&R and that's been going well.  THen again, from what I know HTDP is much more… functional than SICP
11:11 bremner_: yoklov: yeah, there is some Object Oriented stuff in Java. I wouldn't say it is hard, but it is hard to avoid ;)
11:12 yoklov: yeah, well we covered object oriented things some
11:12 yoklov: chapter 3 in sicp
11:12 yoklov: but it was very
11:12 yoklov: uh
11:12 yoklov: bare bones
11:14 bremner_: yeah. well, don't worry, most java courses concentrate pretty heavily on that.
11:14 yoklov: also I have familiarity with racket's object oriented stuff, but yeah, I don't know, it seems fairly… unexciting to me.  Object oriented programming seems like the kinda thing you end up having to do if you work for a soulless corporate entity designing huge bulky programs with a ton of people who suck at what they do
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11:15 yoklov: but that's coming from someone who hasn't ever used full-on object oriented programming
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11:18 bremner_: it's a tool, like any other. try not to hate it before you try it ;)
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11:20 yoklov: thats a good point, and I've enjoyed it in scheme and racket, I just have misgivings about it.
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13:13 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 4377d88 (7 files in 7 dirs): win32: increase stack size to 8 MB ... - http://bit.ly/kNpD4S
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13:19 offby1: If I build racket from git, which commit corresponds to the new 5.1.1 release?
13:20 offby1: I'm guessing d61b573eb38bb5ec3fd91f66344b57d8cf4cf6c9
13:22 yoklov: hm, i dont really know, but i think it's 1f7ac35d8e4207f30afaee22cd83575b44f99cde
13:23 yoklov: http://git.racket-lang.org/plt/commit/1f7ac35d8e4207f30afaee22cd83575b44f99cde ?
13:23 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3wvc9ns
13:25 yoklov: man, way to have excellent internet manners rudybot.  tinyurled it up for him and everything
13:29 offby1: yoklov: some people HATE that behavior.  I can't win.
13:29 offby1: huh, I don't have that commit.
13:30 offby1 smacks forehead
13:30 offby1: I was out of date; there's like a tag and everything.
13:30 offby1 shrivels in embarrassment
13:31 yoklov: what do you mean, some people hate when things are tinyurled?
13:31 offby1: well, they hate when the bot just spews (what they consider) annoying distractions into the channel
13:31 offby1: there are also people who say that URL-tinyfiers are destroying the web
13:31 offby1: never did understand their argument
13:31 yoklov: well, for git-commits i think they're pretty reasonable
13:32 offby1: I added that feature since I always use a text-mode IRC client, and it breaks URLs across lines -- and inserts a backslash -- if they're wider than my screen.  That makes them really hard to copy and paste into a browser.
13:33 offby1: ... aaaaand I'm using a stone-age laptop with a really low-res screen.
13:33 offby1: yoklov: and by the way, the commit you chose is indeed the one with the 5.1.1 tag; I assume you knew that.
13:35 yoklov: well not really, I don't know how git works but i could see that it said v5.1.1 stuff, and came out 10 hours ago, which is around the time the post for 5.1.1 showed up in my rss feed, so i figured it was either that one or i just /really/ didnt understand git
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13:36 offby1: :)
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14:03 PLT_Notify: racket: master Jay McCarthy * 8708268 (1 files in 1 dirs): Fixing problems with %is discovered by Casey - http://bit.ly/m2Y1TF
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14:23 chandler: Is jonrafkind still the person to pester about the Ubuntu PPA?
14:23 offby1: *crickets*
14:24 bremner_: chandler: afaik, yes
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14:25 chandler: OK. I was just about to send him an email about Natty and .desktop files.
14:26 bremner_: chandler: do you have a .desktop file, or just want one?
14:28 bremner_: I'm not sure to what extent jonrafkind is still using my debian packaging as upstream, but I'd take donations of a desktop file.
14:31 chandler: I don't have one, but when I raised the question once before someone sent some along to racket-devel. Let me see if I can dig that up again.
14:32 chandler: http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive/2011-February/044480.html
14:36 bremner_: hmm. well, not exactly brimming with license and copyright info ;)
14:38 chandler: Good point.
14:38 chandler: I'll email the fellow who sent that and ask about that.
14:38 bremner_: thanks
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16:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 6c1ec25 (2 files in 1 dirs): win32: fix page counting in memory manager
16:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 8708268...6c1ec25 - http://bit.ly/juUJ49
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19:53 PLT_Notify: racket: master Sam Tobin-Hochstadt * db5d59a (1 files in 1 dirs): new version of sigplanconf.cls
19:53 PLT_Notify: racket: master Sam Tobin-Hochstadt * 31aa47f (2 files in 1 dirs): Fix a couple typos found by mflatt and the optimzer.
19:53 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 6c1ec25...31aa47f - http://bit.ly/llYBrE
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20:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master Carl Eastlund * 01f1add (1 files in 1 dirs): Made define-syntax-block less restrictive about source of bindings.
20:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master Carl Eastlund * 723d389 (1 files in 1 dirs): Singular version of define-renamings.
20:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master Carl Eastlund * 4990029 (1 files in 1 dirs): Added documentation for define-renaming.
20:07 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 31aa47f...4990029 - http://bit.ly/jFtRjX
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22:10 askhader: awr I love it when my pussy snores
22:11 Demosthenes: *blink*
22:21 askhader: So that was meant for #reddit
22:22 askhader: Also, when my kitty kat decides to nap in my lap it's adorable D=
22:31 Demosthenes: oddly enough....
22:31 Demosthenes: i was thinking it belonged there
22:31 Demosthenes: am i the only one who enters a multi-line sexp in geiser, adn then can't meta-P to get it bafck?
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22:35 Demosthenes: i find myself doing this.... alot. extracting a record from multiline data... http://pastebin.com/UXvQUTZM
22:35 Demosthenes: can anyone suggest improvements?
22:36 Demosthenes: the only thing that comes to mind is a recursive event driven parser, where i pass a list of regexp/key pairs to get, and if they all occur in order while scanning down the input list returns one or more records
22:57 yoklov: not that i really know anything about how to do this, but what's wrong with your current implementation?
22:59 Demosthenes: verbosity
22:59 Demosthenes: imagine having 50 different record types to import
22:59 Demosthenes: and on top of that, multiple versions
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23:08 Demosthenes: i'm also trying to do things like get the hash key from the text at times
23:09 yoklov: yeah
23:10 yoklov: no i get the problem
23:10 yoklov: i wish i could help but I'm fairly useless when it comes to regular expressions
23:13 yoklov: so wait, you're going through a list of strings and if it has a : you split it into 2 parts and send it to the cache, the first one being the key, the second being the thing stored in the hash?
23:14 yoklov: hm
23:14 yoklov: and doing something to cache
23:17 yoklov: wait
23:17 yoklov: i see.
23:19 Demosthenes: it can be more complex. thats why a regexp instead of split
23:19 yoklov: yeah
23:19 Demosthenes: sometimes i have to use a complex regexp to extract one or more values
23:20 Demosthenes: the goal is to express it in as few lines as possible
23:20 Demosthenes: the cache is so i don't run the regexp twice.... i originally though set! returned the value it just set... :P
23:21 Demosthenes: instead, i had to wrap it so the t/f cond returned the status, and preserved the value for the next line
23:21 yoklov: wait
23:21 yoklov: hold on
23:22 yoklov: i dont know for sure but you might not need a cache if you did somethign like
23:23 yoklov: (cond ((regexp #somecrap l) => (lambda (i) (hash-set! record 'a (second i)) or whatever
23:24 yoklov: i mean
23:24 yoklov: regexp-match returns #f if its not found
23:24 yoklov: unless i'm missing somethign you're doing with cache
23:26 yoklov: appears to work
23:27 yoklov: though only reduced lines by one :/
23:27 yoklov: still, no cache which.. simplifies things?
23:30 yoklov: and hm
23:30 Demosthenes: *hrm*
23:30 yoklov: this doesnt need to be a for/list
23:30 Demosthenes: i hadn't seen =>
23:31 yoklov: yeah, its pretty awesome
23:31 yoklov: for/list creates a list as you go
23:31 Demosthenes: yeah, thats a neat trick!
23:31 yoklov: i think you might be able to do this as a for/hasheq
23:31 Demosthenes: that eliminates the cache
23:31 Demosthenes: i was just storing the return of the test
23:32 yoklov: yeah
23:32 Demosthenes: well, i'm stepping through the list
23:32 yoklov: well
23:32 yoklov: yeah
23:32 yoklov: but
23:32 Demosthenes: someone on here was talking about match the other day, and i thought split/match was neat, but couldn't figure out how to make it handle multiline records
23:32 yoklov: thats (for ([l (in-list list)]
23:32 yoklov: or at least thats always what i've done
23:33 Demosthenes: i thought that was the same as for/list?
23:33 yoklov: no
23:33 yoklov: for/list creates a list
23:33 yoklov: with your results
23:33 yoklov: wich are all void
23:33 yoklov: which*
23:33 yoklov: because you're setting somethign which i dont think returns anything
23:33 Demosthenes: oh, yeah, i don't need to keep the results, i'll record the hashes elsewhere
23:33 yoklov: hm
23:34 yoklov: do you need the uh
23:34 yoklov: hash to be mutable at all?
23:34 Demosthenes: i ought to be able to change it later
23:35 yoklov: hm
23:35 Demosthenes: but for/hash is neat, i hadn't considered that. it also breaks where i return more than one k/v pair on a line
23:37 yoklov: hm
23:37 Demosthenes: and really, think of it this way... i'm trying to define a template to extract data. imagine printing a single record on a page, and cutting out the values... then scanning that template down a dictionary, and only snapshojtting values through the paper windows when they all fit.
23:37 Demosthenes: the TXR language is close
23:38 yoklov: hm
23:38 yoklov: so you would want to give a function something like a list of regexps? or what
23:38 Demosthenes: yeah essentially
23:39 yoklov: oh
23:39 Demosthenes: and only collect a hashed record if all lines match
23:39 yoklov: well oh
23:39 yoklov: hm
23:39 Demosthenes: though ideally that behavior would be configurable
23:39 yoklov: so
23:39 yoklov: wait, only collect a record if all lines match?
23:39 Demosthenes: yep
23:39 yoklov: what do you mean by that
23:39 yoklov: only return a hash if all lines match?
23:40 Demosthenes: only if all regexps match k/v, return the results
23:40 Demosthenes: preventing false positives
23:40 Demosthenes: like i said, imagine a paper printout, cut the values, only where they line up exactly snapshot
23:41 yoklov: so a false positive would be something like…
23:41 yoklov: i'm sorry, i just am having a hard time following here
23:41 yoklov: or at least
23:41 yoklov: i dont know how you're currently checking for false positives
23:41 Demosthenes: what if a: was followed by duh: instead of b
23:42 Demosthenes: and my template says a: b: c:
23:42 Demosthenes: so it doesn't match the whole template, it doesn't collect
23:42 yoklov: well
23:42 yoklov: i mean
23:42 yoklov: if you switch a bakka and clorp
23:42 Demosthenes: the example i had ought to create a new hash on a:, and collect it on c:.... but thats a hack too
23:42 yoklov: it seems like
23:42 yoklov: it will still work
23:42 yoklov: i'll check
23:43 Demosthenes: clorp'ed be absorbed by the regexp match to turn the key into a symbol
23:43 Demosthenes: but bakka wouldn't work after that.
23:43 Demosthenes: that code isn't feature complete, just an example of what i'm trying to accomplish
23:43 yoklov: err
23:43 Demosthenes: imagine, records mixed with noise, repeating through the file, and yep, i have to scan line by line seeking
23:43 Demosthenes: really because the file has mixed record types :P '
23:43 yoklov: well
23:43 Demosthenes: moronic app vendors
23:44 yoklov: i mean
23:44 Demosthenes: i don't control the output format, i just need to import it
23:44 yoklov: in your code bakka still works if you switch the two
23:44 Demosthenes: http://www.nongnu.org/txr/
23:44 Demosthenes: yeah, that one like i said was an example, it can take false positives
23:45 Demosthenes: it shouldn't, thats what i'm fighting now
23:45 yoklov: okay
23:46 Demosthenes: i'd considered ignore linefeeds and using long regexps, but they're hard to debug
23:46 yoklov: hm, so, i guess my problem here is that my understanding of a hash is unordered
23:46 Demosthenes: you can't report accurately where a failure occurred.
23:46 Demosthenes: yep, the hash doesn't matter the order, but the incoming record has a pseudo-fixed format
23:47 yoklov: so if at any point
23:47 yoklov: the next symbol you get
23:47 Demosthenes: i have to match the record across lines, but the hash is ok
23:47 yoklov: okay
23:47 Demosthenes: so for instance, single line records, like CSV are easy to parse... and split
23:48 Demosthenes: but paragraph (multiline) records are a pita
23:48 yoklov: yup
23:48 yoklov: right
23:48 Demosthenes: thus my conundrum
23:48 yoklov: i follow
23:48 yoklov: so if the strings are in a different order than the regexps, failure and no return of hash
23:48 Demosthenes: yep
23:49 Demosthenes: so i'm sliding a template down across input strings....
23:49 yoklov: what about duplication or missing regexps
23:49 yoklov: ones that it fails for
23:49 yoklov: err
23:49 yoklov: like
23:49 Demosthenes: duplication i'll have to handle later
23:49 yoklov: if bakka didnt exist
23:49 yoklov: ideally would that be failure
23:49 Demosthenes: yeah, ideally it'd report somehow
23:49 yoklov: or would it be a:1 and clorp:123.01
23:49 Demosthenes: like a log message
23:50 Demosthenes: if it got a single match, and failed later, it ought to speak up
23:50 yoklov: but still return a hash or no
23:50 Demosthenes: no hash on error
23:50 Demosthenes: or partial
23:50 yoklov: i see.
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23:51 yoklov: hold on, i'm pretty good at list manipulation so let me see if i can do something
23:52 Demosthenes: i thought that match function might be useful
23:52 yoklov: eh, no clue.
23:52 yoklov: i'm assuming the regexps work.
23:52 yoklov: and are given in a list
23:53 yoklov: wait, what exactly is going on in your function in the second cond test
23:55 yoklov: or after it rather
23:55 yoklov: eh you can figure out how to implement that
23:57 yoklov: hm.