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12:36 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * cd9eb5a (1 files in 1 dirs): simply dependencies
12:36 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * b0115ee (8 files in 6 dirs): add 'wheel-left and 'wheel-right events
12:36 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 4c5c46d...b0115ee - http://bit.ly/f5onx1
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13:01 tauntaun: Can't read/write to/from tcp ports, even after changing the file-stream-buffer-mode.  Any idea why?
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13:03 JuanDaugherty: permissions?
13:04 tauntaun: JuanDaugherty: permissions on what exactly?
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13:05 tauntaun: I'm using a permitted port number.
13:08 JuanDaugherty: some environments block port access to non-privileged users, no idea what env you're in
13:08 tauntaun: client and server are both running on my laptop.
13:09 tauntaun: Btw, what is an 'env'?
13:09 tauntaun: (i.e., 'environment')
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13:25 JuanDaugherty: tauntaun, I meant the OS user account and its environment
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16:46 seus: question: in this code: http://codepad.org/WvBE7A4R on line 3, why is it when i do the first thing l5-compile '(pop x) it doesn't evaluate the x for the number when it does the recursion? is there some simple operator that I'm missing to do that? i can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong
16:48 qha: Yes, "'" quotes the entire list.
16:48 seus: hmm
16:48 seus: ok thats true
16:49 qha: If you want the x to be evaluated you can either add another level of quasiquote or do ,(list 'pop x).
16:49 qha: (and I suppose you'll want to do the same for '(pop y)...)
16:49 seus: yeah
16:50 seus: i was figuring it had to be something like that...didn't understand it until you typed it there thanks!
16:50 qha: you're welcome.
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17:29 ari_: hi
17:30 ari_: who  here is familiar with lists
17:30 AtnNn: cons lists?
17:31 ari_: yea
17:32 AtnNn: I think most here are familiar with those
17:35 eli: (Not much to be familiar with.)
17:35 jonrafkind: not everyone knows what you know
17:36 eli: `cons', `car', `cdr'.
17:36 jonrafkind: `list', `append', `tail', `drop'
17:36 ari_: i am doing  a game called paratrooper. Here i have to shoot cannonballs from a tank. The catch is, the cannonballs have to be diifferent colors.In order to do that i need a helper function which randomly picks a color of a cannonball. i do not understand how to do that
17:37 eli: jonrafkind: That's not "lists", that's "library functions related to lists".
17:37 eli: ari_: You want to get a random element from a list?
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17:38 ari_: so eli
17:38 ari_: can u help
17:38 ari_: nvm
17:38 ari_: yes i do
17:38 eli: ari_: Do you know about `random'?
17:39 ari_: kinda but not with colors and not sure how i can assign it to stuff
17:39 eli: You don't need to assign stuff to it.
17:39 eli: (random N) for some integer N gives you a random integer between zero and N-1.
17:39 eli: rudybot: (random 10)
17:39 rudybot: eli: your sandbox is ready
17:39 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 0
17:39 eli: rudybot: (random 10)
17:39 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 2
17:39 eli: So you just need to combine it with length:
17:40 eli: rudybot: (define (random-elt l) (list-ref l (random (length l))))
17:40 rudybot: eli: Done.
17:40 eli: rudybot: (random-elt '("red" "green" "blue"))
17:40 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "blue"
17:40 eli: rudybot: (random-elt '("red" "green" "blue"))
17:40 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "green"
17:40 eli: rudybot: (random-elt '("red" "green" "blue"))
17:40 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "blue"
17:40 eli: But if this is some homework, you should make sure that you're allowed to use all of these.
17:45 (quit) ari_: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
17:48 tauntaun: Any ideas about my earlier question about tcp ports?
17:52 eli: What's the question?
17:54 qha: I think more specifically JuanDaugherty was asking if you're running some Unix like operating system as a user other than root and trying to bind to a port below 1024.
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17:58 tauntaun: eli: I set up a listener with tcp-listen, client ports with tcp-connect, and listener ports with tcp-accept.  But read, write, print, and display don't work on those ports.
17:59 eli: That's way to vague for dealing with network issues...
17:59 eli: How did you try it -- did you connect using a racket program?
17:59 eli: Which port did you use?
17:59 tauntaun: Yes, of course.
17:59 eli: Which OS?
17:59 eli: Is it the same program that was running the server and the client?
17:59 tauntaun: Ubuntu; all port numbers above 50000
18:00 eli: If so, did you properly run them in threads?
18:00 tauntaun: No, different racket shells.
18:00 eli: OK, did you flush the output after writing to it?
18:00 tauntaun: No they were running in the shell's main thread.
18:00 tauntaun: I did flush-output several times.
18:00 tauntaun: I did change the file buffer mode in various ways.
18:00 eli: Did you try a lower level utility like netcat?
18:00 eli: (Flushing would generally be more reliable.)
18:01 tauntaun: Didn't try netcat.
18:01 eli: You could start with both the client and the server being in netcat -- to make sure that the os allows you to connect,
18:01 eli: then replace each side by the racket code.
18:02 eli: It might be something very weird -- for example, recently I ran into a configuration where "localhost" didn't mean the same thing as "this machine".
18:02 eli: (So in general "127.0.0.1" is more reliable.)
18:02 tauntaun: FWIW, the "hello world" server example on this page did work: file:///home/awest/racket/doc/more/index.html#%28part.__.Hello_.World__.Server%29
18:02 eli: (But these problems would happen with netcat too.)
18:02 tauntaun: FWIW, tcp-accept did work.
18:03 tauntaun: ie, I checked that a pending tcp-connect stopped the server's tcp-accept from blocking.
18:03 eli: If that example worked, then you might have some problem with your code.
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18:04 eli: If you can paste them somewhere I can have a look.
18:04 tauntaun: It's easy enough to do it here.
18:04 eli: (But I might be gone shortly for several hours.)
18:04 tauntaun: (define listener (tcp-listen 50000 5 #t))
18:05 tauntaun: (define-values (in out) (tcp-accept listener)) <blocks>
18:05 tauntaun: on the client end:
18:05 tauntaun: (define-values (in out) (tcp-connect "localhost" 50000))
18:05 tauntaun: (server's tcp-accept returns from block)
18:05 eli: ok, then what?
18:06 tauntaun: Then client says: (write 'hi out)....but (read in) at the server just blocks.
18:06 eli: Ha...
18:06 tauntaun cringes in anticipation of learning his silly mistake.
18:07 eli: Here's a hint -- what happens if you immediately do -- on the client -- (write 'x out)?
18:07 tauntaun: Just a sec, let me type these in.
18:07 eli: Nah, I'll save you the trouble.
18:07 eli: (BTW, that's missing a flush too...)
18:08 eli: You're printing *just* "hi" -- the reader can't tell if this is a `hi' symbol, or `hix' etc
18:08 eli: IOW, the reader needs some separator to return the symbol.
18:08 eli: So (newline out) should work.
18:08 tauntaun: What's IOW?
18:08 Lycurgus: http://docs.racket-lang.org/drracket/debugger.html
18:08 eli: Or better: (fprintf out "~s\n" 'hi)
18:08 Lycurgus: I'm new to racket. Is the Tip on that page a joke?
18:09 eli: IOW: in other words
18:09 tauntaun: eli: It didn't work.
18:09 tauntaun: (read in) at the server just blocks.
18:09 eli: Did you flush?
18:09 tauntaun: no, just a sec.
18:09 eli: Lycurgus: Why would it be a joke?
18:09 tauntaun: Success!
18:10 tauntaun: OK, thanks.  So I need newline.
18:10 eli: tauntaun: Right...  Like I said, flushing is more robust -- you don't get nasty surprises...
18:10 tauntaun: Right, but the new thing for me here is the newline.
18:10 eli: Yeah, a new line is the easiest thing if you plan to read/write arbitrary sexprs.
18:10 Lycurgus: eli, because it's not the sort of thing that would normally need to be a tip
18:11 Lycurgus: is there some aspect of racket that calls for renaming files while in use?
18:11 seus: what's the correct syntax in match, so that I can match '* ?
18:11 seus: ? '* doesn't work
18:11 eli: Lycurgus: Usually, drracket doesn't depend on the file name or on the existence of a file -- since this is an exception, it's mentioned explicitly.
18:12 eli: tauntaun: BTW, it's a common mistake to do when you start to play with tcp lines, and you get the impression that it's as easy as something like channels.
18:12 Lycurgus: eli, OK I guess I'll understand that shortly. BTW is there a way to set breakpoints in that debugger?
18:12 eli: rudybot: (define (foo x) (match x ['x "ex"] [_ "something else"]))
18:12 rudybot: eli: Done.
18:12 eli: rudybot: (foo 'x)
18:12 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "ex"
18:12 eli: rudybot: (foo 'xx)
18:12 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "something else"
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18:12 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 342964b (1 files in 1 dirs): win32: ignore inapplicable WM_HSCROLL and WM_VSCROLL events
18:12 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 37f9363 (2 files in 1 dirs): win32: another try for horizontal wheel events
18:12 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits b0115ee...37f9363 - http://bit.ly/i5jdsa
18:12 (part) PLT_Notify
18:12 eli: seus: There.
18:13 tauntaun: eli: You mean thread channels?
18:13 tauntaun: I plan on using only thread mailboxes.
18:13 eli: Lycurgus: I think so -- something like right-clicking on a paren after you start debugging the program.  But I'm not 100% sure, I almost never use it.
18:13 Lycurgus: got it
18:13 eli: tauntaun: Yeah, channels are easy since you're transferring *values*.  Thread mailboxes are similar too.
18:14 eli: tauntaun: But when you start with a tcp thing, you're dealing with a line that holds serialized values.
18:14 tauntaun: OK
18:14 tauntaun: I have no choice but to use tcp lines, though, because I need to distribute my application on a network.
18:15 Lycurgus: yeah, right click and then select pause at this point. Works in any lang btw
18:15 eli: tauntaun: Yeah, obviously -- just be aware that it's text that you're dealing with.
18:15 eli: tauntaun: BTW -- http://pl.barzilay.org/lec18.txt
18:16 eli: Look for the two bits of sample code near the end.
18:16 eli: They implement a prime number sieve using channels and using generators -- it might be a fun example for your thing.
18:17 eli: The version that uses channels is a near literal translation of an example that Rob Pike shows in his talk about newsqueak (the link just above the example).
18:20 tauntaun: I'll try to get around to it at some point (...listening to Pike's talk right now).
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18:41 seus: can you guys tell me, does match allow optional arguments, and if not there, it still will match, meaning....
18:41 seus: if i have a list '(1 2 3 4) and 4 is an optional part of it
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19:22 Lycurgus: is it pronounced "doktor racket"?
19:23 bremner: Ja
19:24 Lycurgus: 's nice
19:29 jonrafkind: dawktaw is the correct pronunciation
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19:37 bremner: is that a boston thing?
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