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01:16 rrenaud: total racket noob, used scheme a tiny bit like 8 years ago, familiar with repl in python, i want to make variables that i later manipulate
01:16 rrenaud: in python i'd do like
01:16 rrenaud: a = 5
01:16 rrenaud: print a * 3
01:16 rrenaud: i am reading about let, but it seems to bound the scope of the variaables
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01:33 DT``: rrenaud, (define a <expr>)
01:33 rrenaud: DT``: thanks
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01:59 rrenaud: is something like this (long let* sequence) considered bad style?
01:59 rrenaud: http://pastie.org/1698615
01:59 jonrafkind: its ok
02:02 DT``: my `let's can be even worse than that.
02:06 rrenaud: is there some big list of generically useful functions?
02:08 DT``: of course, the docs (http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/index.html)
02:11 rrenaud: i don't understand this..
02:11 rrenaud: (count any '(#t #f #t))
02:11 rrenaud: . any: use of 'any' outside the range of an arrow contract in: any
02:12 rrenaud: nm, i just don't understand any in general
02:12 DT``: ``any'' is a contract, not a predicate.
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02:42 tauntaun: Any reason why Racket's foldl and foldr take a function with the same signature?  Other folds, including those defined by R6RS, expect the fold-left func to take the accumulator as first arg but expect the fold-right func to take it as last arg.
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06:49 bremner_: that's weird
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08:54 tauntaun: Out of curiosity, why do Racket's foldl and foldr take a function with the same signature?  Other folds, including those defined by R6RS, expect the fold-left func to take the accumulator as first arg but expect the fold-right func to take it as last arg.
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09:42 eli: tauntaun: Racket's version is older than R6RS.
09:43 eli: But more than that, having the same type for the input function means that it's easy to switch between the two.
09:43 tauntaun: eli: yes, agreed.  I was just wondering why other languages (e.g., Haskell, I think?) chose to reverse the input functions arg order...
09:44 tauntaun: (*function's)
09:44 tauntaun: (See Wikipedia entry)
09:49 eli: tauntaun: I have no idea...
09:49 eli: Haskell is probably following ML.
09:50 eli: Not completely, at least OCaml switches the two other inputs.
09:50 eli: (Which is a nice demonstration for the racket point of having the same type, IMO.)
09:53 tauntaun: eli: OK, I was really just checking that there wasn't some deep issue behind it.  FWIW, I'm used to the Racket way.
09:55 eli: I don't know of any deep reason...  It predates my plt time...
09:56 eli: But if I'd implement it, the way I'd approach it is as two similar functions that perform their jobs differently, and therefore using the same type would be natural.
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10:49 rien: can Racket said to be image-based like Factor and most Smalltalks are?
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11:49 friscosam: rien: not really
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12:08 cousin: Hello?
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12:11 cousin: I am trying to (in the same function) append two lists together and rename the list with the name of the initial list
12:11 cousin: So, I guess I'm trying to update the list rather tha create a new one
12:29 rien: friscosam: I see. I need some time to think of my next question. :) thanks!
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12:31 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 6e9fea9 (1 files in 1 dirs): Fix Scribble's handling of L with stroke. - http://bit.ly/h6PKyT
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13:09 billy_bob_joe: hi there, any C guys in here?
13:15 billy_bob_joe: no?
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13:42 bremner_: billy_bob_joe: could you please use one nick? thanks.
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13:48 billy_bob_joe: anyone?
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16:08 heyya: hi
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16:27 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 4b1e4f9 (1 files in 1 dirs): Fix Scribble's handling of the trademark symbol. - http://bit.ly/eyDJql
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16:28 (topic) samth: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- Come to Racket Days: July 23-24 -- logs @ http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs
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17:07 qha: for anyone else in the channel who doesn't follow announce@racket-lang.org:
17:07 qha: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.racket.announce/4
17:08 samth: or http://bit.ly/racket-days
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20:22 cousin: Hello?
20:25 bremner_: cousin: hi
20:25 cousin: Hello!
20:26 cousin: I am trying to take a list of a certain name, append something to the end of it, and redefine the new list with the same name within the same function
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20:26 cousin: I guess I am trying to update a list rather than replace it
20:28 bremner_: are you sure you need to do it that way? it isn't the most natural approach in racket
20:29 lisppaste: cousin pasted "list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120798
20:30 cousin: bremner_: Yes, I need to rename the new list with the same name as the first list. This is what I have so far
20:31 bremner_: why does it matter that you use the same variable name? isn't the return value from the function what matters?
20:32 bremner_: or is that the assignment?
20:33 cousin: the assignment is rather vague but from what I can gather, the railroad is a list in progress: we must provide functions that add/remove stations and links to a railroad, so the same railroad is built and taken apart
20:35 bremner_: usually when functional programming people say "remove an element from a list", they mean "return a new list, without that element"
20:36 cousin: okay
20:36 cousin: so I should just rename the new list?
20:37 cousin: Is there a way to incorporate that into the function?
20:39 bremner_: sorry, I don't understand what is important about the name of the list.
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20:40 bremner_: you can use e.g. let or define to rename things, but I somehow get the feeling you are trying to drive a java shaped peg into a racket shaped hole ;)
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20:40 bremner_: you can also use, e.g. set! and boxes if you want mutation.
20:41 cousin: I don't know what those things are.
20:41 bremner_: fair enough. You probably don't want them.
20:42 bremner_: I'm not your teacher, so I don't really know what they want, but the natural thing in racket is to think about functions that produce values
20:42 cousin: okay. thank you bremner_
20:43 bremner_: welcome
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22:23 PLT_Notify: racket: master Casey Klein * 8793475 (4 files in 3 dirs): Adds a parameter that provides a default for redex-check's #:attempt argument - http://bit.ly/gjGo38
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22:46 tauntaun: Can someone point me to Racket's hashtable documentation?
22:46 tauntaun: I can't find it in PLT-help, though I'm almost sure it's there somewhere.
22:46 tauntaun: I seem to remember once reading a page made by Ryan Culpepper, on splay trees and two or three other related data structures.
22:47 DT``: tauntaun, http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/hashtables.html ?
22:47 DT``: http://docs.racket-lang.org/data/index.html?q=splay&q=hash
22:47 DT``: this one.
22:47 tauntaun: I'm sorry, I wasn't clear: I'm looking for documentationon how the hash is *implemented*.
22:50 DT``: that's the only page about splay trees (and made by Ryan Culpepper). Are you sure it was in the docs?
22:50 tauntaun: No 100% sure.
22:50 tauntaun: Is the immutable hash a red-black tree?
22:50 tauntaun: That's the kind of question I need to answer.
22:50 DT``: afaik yes, but I heard it here on IRC.
22:51 tauntaun: Then I'm rather confused.
22:51 tauntaun: Because afaik, the RB tree is a binary tree.
22:52 tauntaun: So I don't understand how the hash can be said to support operations in "constant" (ie., small log) time.
22:54 tauntaun: Actually I think someone answered this question recently.
22:54 tauntaun consults the IRC logs.
22:57 tauntaun: Well, tragically 4 days' worth of logs is missing.
22:59 DT``: I should still have it, wait a sec.
23:00 DT``: tauntaun, http://paste.lisp.org/display/120801
23:02 tauntaun: molte grazie
23:03 tauntaun: I wonder if Racket could do with a better immutable hashtable.
23:05 DT``: I almost never use immutable hashes anyway.
23:06 tauntaun: I'm experimenting with some purely functional code, so immutability is my creed for this particular project.
23:09 DT``: I'd use an alist, it feels more natural (in a Lisp).
23:09 DT``: of course, if you care about speed, use an hashtable.
23:10 tauntaun: alists are practical only for small sets.
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