01:31 (join) zenspider
01:32 zenspider: anyone awake?
01:40 jonrafkind: sup
01:44 zenspider: hiya... I'm new(ish) to racket and working through some stuff where it'd be really nice to use the tracer... but I'm having a bitch of a time figgering it out. essentially, I don't understand import and the online doco is about useless at my level
01:44 zenspider: I figured out I could declare #lang r6rs and then import tracer, but when I do that I'm missing stuff from r5rs
01:45 zenspider: and the imports I've tried to get r5rs compatibility working bitch about duplicate definitions
01:45 zenspider: and and and... frustrating. racket's error messages aren't terribly friendly.
01:47 jonrafkind: do you really want to use r6rs?
01:48 jonrafkind: '#lang racket' might be better for you
01:48 zenspider: I'd rather use r5rs honestly as it is a lot simpler and targets what I'm doing better (I'm working through sicp)
01:48 zenspider: I can't say I know how much of a diff there is between racket and r5rs tho
01:48 zenspider: r6rs seems like a pure PITA, but it was the only incarnation that got the tracer running
01:48 jonrafkind: i think the only important difference is mutable pairs
01:49 jonrafkind: but you might need those for SICP, im not sure
01:49 zenspider: specifically: (import (rnrs) (racket trace)) ... (trace f) (f)
01:49 zenspider: not yet at least
01:51 jonrafkind: i dont work with r5rs much but i doubt you can get the trace library working with it
01:51 zenspider: any language close enough that has tracer support and defines the basic mathy stuff I'm looking for would work for now
01:51 zenspider: I can't get the tracer to work with #lang racket
01:51 zenspider: that's unfortunate
01:51 jonrafkind: should just be (require trace)
01:51 jonrafkind: or possiby (require scheme/trace)
01:51 jonrafkind: or even (require racket/trace)
01:52 zenspider: hey! that did it! (require scheme/trace)
01:52 jonrafkind: whereas (require trace) did not work?
01:52 zenspider: thank you very much. that would have driven me nuts.
01:52 zenspider: ... that is... for hours
01:52 zenspider: nope
01:53 jonrafkind: ok i guess those are different libraries
01:53 jonrafkind: i forget what `trace' is for, i think only drracket uses it for something
01:53 jonrafkind: but you should use either scheme/trace or racket/trace
01:54 zenspider: and to be clear... this is only for cmdline trace output, right?
01:55 zenspider: I have yet to find ANYTHING that'll make the "View -> Show Tracing" sidebar work
01:55 zenspider: tho I'm usually working out of emacs and an inferior scheme
01:55 zenspider: it'd be nice to be able to use the racket debugger and tracer in the gui from time to time
01:56 jonrafkind: the stepper should work
01:56 jonrafkind: normally i just read the cmdline output from drracket when using trace
01:58 zenspider: yeah. I will too most of the time.... well, all of the time. I don't think the gui trace function actually works
01:59 zenspider: so, just to make sure I'm tracking... collects/racket/trace.rkt is what I just imported, yes?
01:59 zenspider: (collects/scheme/track.rkt seems to just load the above)
02:09 jonrafkind: yea
02:15 zenspider: kk. thanks. much appreciated
02:17 offby1: what's the tersest, most elegant Racket equivalent of Python's "x[i] += 10"?
02:17 offby1: sure, I can do it with vector-ref and vector-set!, but it's pretty verbose
02:17 jonrafkind: use a macro
02:18 offby1: one that I write myself?  Bah.
02:18 offby1: (I'm having a deja vu -- I swear I've had this discussion before)
02:18 offby1: I was hoping for something built-in ...
02:18 offby1: that reminds me: maybe there's something like that in Swindle.  I'll look.
02:19 jonrafkind: (setf (vref x i) (+ 10))
02:19 jonrafkind: just kidding
02:19 offby1: I was just about to say -- I think I want "defset"
03:02 (join) Bob_
03:02 Bob_: hello everyone
03:03 Bob_: is there some sort of function for returning the nth item in a list?
03:03 Bob_: for example:
03:03 Bob_: (n-th-item 4 (list 1 2 3 53)) would return 53
03:06 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
03:09 offby1: rudybot: doc list-ref
03:09 rudybot: *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready
03:09 rudybot: *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/pairs.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._list-ref))
03:09 offby1: Bob_: ^^ check it out ^^
03:10 Bob_: wow
03:10 Bob_: ok, thank you so much
03:11 rudybot: Don't thank him; thank me!
03:12 Bob_: oh, haha
03:12 Bob_: sorry man
03:12 Bob_: did see your name in front of the link
03:12 Bob_: didn't*
03:13 offby1: rudybot: don't be rude
03:13 rudybot: *offby1: Incidentally, http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsChannelHarassment is a good writeup; "Ops have special responsibility, but everyone should participate in challenging rude behavior."
03:13 offby1: rudybot: I challenge you!
03:13 rudybot: *offby1: i accept your challenge
03:13 offby1: rudybot: shall we say pistols at dawn?
03:13 rudybot: *offby1: "The Sex Pistols' Never Mind the Bollocks (1977) is closer to the second world war than it is to the present. "
03:14 offby1: rudybot: that's horrifying.
03:14 rudybot: *offby1: That is *still* making `+' dependant on a mutated global flag.  And that is still something that sounds to me pretty horrifying.
03:14 offby1: rudybot: No more so than Keith Richards getting his blood changed.
03:14 rudybot: *offby1: it chooses wrong fonts (THANKS KEITH PACKARD!) then misaligns text
03:14 Bob_: ..wha? What are you guys talking about?
03:14 offby1: rudybot: can you explain?
03:14 rudybot: *offby1: i will not navigate to it, click, read the text hoping it will explain, launch a gui browser, and wait for it to start just to find out what it does.  that is what it gets you.
03:15 offby1: Bob_: he's a little testy.
03:15 Bob_: lol don't worry about it
03:15 offby1: rudybot: how's your therapy been going?
03:15 rudybot: *offby1: the amount of money I'm putting into therapy and drugs is just sad
03:15 Bob_: I was a bit confused by the randomness
03:15 Bob_: sex pistols
03:15 Bob_: keith packard
03:15 Bob_: ...wtf?
03:15 offby1: rudybot: he called you "random"!
03:15 rudybot: *offby1: The supernodes are just random users with fast connections and the ability to receive incoming connections.
03:15 offby1: Bob_: it's a bot.
03:15 offby1: as suggested by the nick "rudybot".
03:16 Bob_: wait
03:16 offby1 waits
03:16 Bob_: rudybot is a bot?
03:16 offby1: shocking, but true
03:16 Bob_: wait...wha?
03:16 rudybot: It's true, I'm a bot, ayup.
03:16 Bob_: that can't be true
03:16 rudybot: AH SWEARS TO GOD
03:16 Bob_: you would be like the most intelligent bot in the world
03:16 rudybot blushes
03:17 offby1: of course I also "drive" him directly on occasion ...
03:17 offby1 glances around nervously.
03:17 offby1: the random stuff was true botness.  The last three replies were just me putting words into "his" mouth.
03:17 rudybot: Like this.
03:20 Bob_: so if rudybot is a bot
03:20 Bob_: what kinda of stuff can it do?
03:20 Bob_: count really fast?
03:21 offby1: not a whole lot, really
03:21 offby1: the one genuinely useful feature is:
03:21 offby1: rudybot: (+ 1 2 3)
03:21 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 6
03:21 offby1: i.e., it can evaluate racket code
03:21 offby1: (so "count really fast" is actually pretty close to the truth)
03:22 offby1: oh, and the looking-up-documentation thing.
03:22 offby1: basically whatever I could think of that seemed either useful or amusing, and wasn't too hard to write
03:31 Bob_: so are you like a developer or something?
03:31 Bob_: I mean, you must somehow have access to this site if you can integrate a bot into the chat
03:39 offby1: Anyone can run a bot on IRC.
03:39 offby1: It's no different from running your IRC client; they're both just programs.
03:43 Bob_: so can rudybot evaluate ANY racket code?
03:43 Bob_: rudybot: (+ 1 2 3)
03:43 rudybot: Bob_: your sandbox is ready
03:43 rudybot: Bob_: ; Value: 6
03:43 Bob_: oh snap
03:43 Bob_: sandox?
03:43 Bob_: rudybot: (filter even? (list 1 2 3 4))
03:43 rudybot: Bob_: ; Value: (2 4)
03:44 Bob_: (first empty)
03:44 Bob_: rudybot: (first empty)
03:44 rudybot: Bob_: error: first: expected argument of type <non-empty list>; given ()
03:47 Bob_: rudybot: answer to life
03:47 rudybot: Bob_: error: reference to undefined identifier: answer
03:47 Bob_: :(
03:48 Bob_: rudybot: (define answer-to-life 42)
03:48 rudybot: Bob_: Done.
03:48 Bob_: rudybot: (+ answer-to-life 1)
03:48 rudybot: Bob_: ; Value: 43
03:48 Bob_: siiiccckk
03:51 offby1: rudybot: (define x 123)
03:52 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
03:52 offby1: rudybot: give Bob_ x
03:52 rudybot: Bob_: offby1 has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive)
03:52 Bob_: rudybot: eval (GRAB)
03:52 rudybot: Bob_: ; Value: 123
03:52 Bob_: woah
03:52 Bob_: what if someone else typed the grab command?
03:52 offby1: don't think it'd have worked
03:53 offby1: rudybot: eval (GRAB)
03:53 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
03:53 offby1: rudybot: eval (GRAB)
03:53 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
03:53 Bob_: lol
03:54 Bob_: rudybot: (/ x 0)
03:54 rudybot: Bob_: error: reference to undefined identifier: x
03:54 Bob_: I guess it doesn't keep the definition for me?
03:55 (part) zenspider: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
03:56 offby1: nope -- I gave you a _value_, not a _binding_.
03:56 Bob_: aaahhh
03:56 Bob_: ok
03:56 Bob_: I got it
03:56 offby1: rudybot: source
03:56 rudybot: *offby1: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git
03:56 Bob_: so if you said give Bob_ (define x .....)
03:57 offby1: I think you'd get <void>, or something
03:57 offby1: Try It And See™.
03:57 Bob_: lol
03:57 Bob_: what
03:57 Bob_: trademark?
03:57 offby1: yes©
03:57 offby1: ®
03:57 Bob_: give offby1 (define x 123)
03:58 Bob_: oh wait
03:58 Bob_: lol
03:58 Bob_: fail
03:58 Bob_: rudybot: give offby1 (define x 123)
03:58 rudybot: offby1: Bob_ has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive)
03:58 offby1: rudybot: (GRAB)
03:58 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
03:59 Stanislave: rudybot, eval "I worship your shadow"
03:59 offby1: yeah I think it's the "void" value, which is weird; it doesn't print
03:59 rudybot: Stanislave: your sandbox is ready
03:59 rudybot: Stanislave: ; Value: "I worship your shadow"
03:59 Stanislave: In CL, (if #f x) evaluats to nil, right?
04:00 offby1: sounds right.
04:00 offby1: Haven't played with CL in ages.
04:00 Bob_: CL?
04:00 Stanislave: I choose to read that remark sexually.
04:00 Bob_: lol wtf it's a game?
04:00 offby1: except that #f doesn't mean anything in CL
04:00 Bob_: oh
04:00 offby1: Bob_: CL is "Common Lisp"
04:00 Stanislave: Well
04:00 Stanislave: (if nil x)
04:00 Stanislave: pardon
04:00 Bob_: haven't played WITH CL
04:00 offby1: yeah
04:00 Bob_: I read
04:00 Bob_: haven't played with CL
04:00 Stanislave: Basically, lisp for bad people
04:00 Bob_: or rather
04:00 Stanislave: who don't like to work
04:00 Bob_: haven't played CL
04:00 Stanislave: And who don't like TCO
04:01 Stanislave: CL FUNDS TERRORSISM
04:01 Bob_: lol I don't even know wtf these languages are
04:01 offby1: rudybot: Why do you have freedom?
04:01 rudybot: *offby1: i fail to see how that is relevant, you're using american technology, not much freedom their either.
04:01 Bob_: good old java and visual basic
04:01 Stanislave: VB is pro.
04:01 offby1: Bob_: Common Lisp is like Racket's third cousin.
04:01 Stanislave: if x then goto y
04:01 Bob_: I miss
04:01 Bob_: ifs
04:01 Bob_: and for loops
04:01 Bob_: and whiles
04:01 Bob_: and thens
04:01 offby1: sure you do.
04:02 Bob_: and 1 + 2
04:02 Bob_: not (+ 1 2)
04:02 Stanislave: I miss fame, fortune, fast cars, and beautiful women
04:02 Stanislave: Blasphemy
04:03 Bob_: I'm sure I'd like racket more
04:03 Stanislave: I think (1 + 2) is pretty cool though
04:03 Stanislave: Where 1 is the function
04:03 Bob_: if I wasn't restricted in the language level
04:03 Bob_: so 1 is a function that consumes a function and a number?
04:04 Stanislave: Yeah
04:04 Stanislave: Cool eh?
04:04 Stanislave: Why not?
04:04 Bob_: lol I guess so
04:04 Stanislave: I mean, in true lambda calculu style, numbers should be also functions
04:04 Stanislave: And like, to spice it up.
04:04 Stanislave: I was like
04:04 Stanislave: (/ 2 5) evaluates to 1/10
04:04 Stanislave: And (2 / 4) to 1/2
04:05 Stanislave: And (/ 2 4) to 1/8
04:05 Stanislave: Because I never liked that part
04:05 Stanislave: Where (/ 2) is the reciptorial
04:05 Bob_: you lost me
04:05 Stanislave: But (/ 2 4) is the division
04:05 Stanislave: (/ x y ... z) is 1 / x / y ... / z
04:05 Stanislave: Basically
04:06 Stanislave: Just as (+ x y ... z) is 0 + x + y ... + z
04:06 Bob_: oook
04:06 Stanislave: So that (/ 2) being 1/2 makes sense
04:06 Bob_: rudybot: (build-list 1000000 add1)
04:06 Bob_: lol
04:07 Bob_: not happenin' I guess
04:07 rudybot: Bob_: error: with-limit: out of memory
04:07 Bob_: ahahah
04:07 offby1: trying to rack up charges on my server host, are you?!
04:07 offby1: rudybot: kill him!
04:07 rudybot: *offby1: How the hell is gcc (well, cc1plus) surviving kill -9?
04:07 Bob_: LOL
04:07 offby1: rudybot: clearly it's a zombie.
04:07 rudybot: *offby1: Hi again. I'm in trouble. I've tried using synctex and auctex, and for some reason emacs launched synctex as a subprocess , which became a zombie. So emacs is blocked. Now, i had written some stuff in *scratch* which i'd really want not to loose. How can I retrieve the contents of my *scratch* ?
04:08 offby1: rudybot: first, go to a federally-insured bank ...
04:08 rudybot: *offby1: back in the 70s teams of men in ridiculous moustaches and brown letaher jackets would tunnel into bank vaults.
04:08 Bob_: LMFAO
04:09 Bob_: sorry about the server thing though
04:09 Bob_: lol
04:09 offby1: Bob_: the whole reason it said "out of memory" is so that you cannot rack up charges on my server :)
04:10 Bob_: oh, haha
04:10 offby1: rudybot: eval (let loop () (loop))
04:10 Bob_: did you limit the memory or something?
04:10 offby1: sure
04:10 rudybot: *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time
04:10 offby1: time too
04:10 offby1: also filesystem access
04:10 Bob_: what is time limited to?
04:10 Bob_: like 3 seconds lol?
04:10 offby1: two seconds, I think
04:10 Bob_: ahaha
04:10 offby1: plenty for most stuff
04:11 Bob_: except (build-list 1000000 add1)
04:12 offby1: sure
04:17 Bob_: anyways, I'm off to bed
04:17 Bob_: night guys
04:17 Bob_: rudybot: goodnight rudybot
04:17 rudybot: Bob_: error: reference to undefined identifier: goodnight
04:17 Bob_: :(
04:22 (quit) Bob_: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
04:57 (quit) offby2: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
21:13 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org/ (logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/ )
21:13 (names) -: gabot jonrafkind Samy_ gwyth tv|z orlandu63 Lajla Ogion masm bremner Eren eli em fmu godless_ alexsuraci rotty Pepe_ mattmight certainty spacebat Guest1821 tonyg writer bill_h sid3k offby1 jao franki^ rudybot askhader stamourv rapacity mario-goulart chandler seth clklein tewk @ChanServ
21:19 Samy_: YOUJ ARE THE BEST
21:19 Samy_: Thx
21:22 offby1: heh
21:23 offby1: make sure you understand what that's doing; don't just blindly copy and paste.
22:32 (quit) writer: Quit: writer
22:40 (join) Bob__
22:40 Bob__: Hello everyone
22:40 Bob__: is there some sort of function to time how long a calculation takes?
22:40 Bob__: I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere
22:42 (join) cataska
22:44 Bob__: rudybot: (time (+ 1 2))
22:44 rudybot: Bob__: your sandbox is ready
22:44 rudybot: Bob__: ; Value: 3
22:44 Bob__: hmm...
22:44 Bob__: 3 what?
22:44 Bob__: (time (+ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8))
22:44 Bob__: rudybot: (time (+ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8))
22:44 rudybot: Bob__: ; Value: 36
22:45 Bob__: yeah, ok. I got it
22:45 gwyth: Bob__: http://docs.racket-lang.org/search/index.html?q=time
22:45 Bob__: that code works in the actual racket
22:55 (quit) Samy_: Quit: Page closed