00:00 samth: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3805294/sicp-scheme-drracket-question-timer-profiler-function
00:00 (notice) rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/2aj9c7e
00:02 eli: Oh, I missed the "racket" in the title of that question...  I try to remember to retag such things.
00:03 eli: Anyway, done -- what do I get now?
00:03 samth: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3844344/how-can-i-check-if-a-variable-exists-in-scheme/3851377#3851377
00:03 (notice) rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/24j6z2m
00:04 samth: thanks
00:04 eli opens wallet and waits patiently
00:05 samth: now i can, for example, have more than 1 link per answer
00:05 samth: and also i can vote up your answers
00:06 eli: You can also vote for pedro.
00:07 samth: you've been in boston too long
00:08 eli: Pedro is from ohio...
00:10 Fare: eli: it's almost there. I just modified exscribe to make its output more deterministic across implementations, so I may diff the output.
00:12 eli: Fare: OK
00:12 eli: In any case I'll start by running so I'll have my own output to compare with.
00:13 Fare: I couldn't try allegro - the version I have access to is too old and borks for the slightest reason
00:16 Fare: eli: I suppose it's OK if in the output there are differences merely of non-significant html whitespace.
00:16 eli: Fare: Yeah, that's probably expected.
00:17 Fare: I'm precompiling all my documents with ccl, saving the result in a directory
00:17 Fare: then the same with sbcl.
00:29 Fare: ccl did it all in 5 minutes, sbcl in 1 minute and 10 seconds.
00:34 Fare: eli: how do I send you that big file? (94MB uncompressed)
00:35 Fare: (29MB compressed)
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02:07 sprees: Hi, does anybody know why drracket won't install on ubuntu 10.4
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02:30 jonrafkind: guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud question
02:37 PascalHunger: Lajla: why am i back and using scheme?
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04:09 PascalHunger: i am find this racket web server to be verrry complicated
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05:08 neilv: i wish check-syntax were faster. i'm renaming identifiers heavily in a file, and the waits are uncomfortable
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06:24 skoorc8: Hello, I would like to submit a bug report and a patch. Does documentation exist on doing this and if not how do I proceed?
06:27 bremner: skoorc8: there is a report bug option in DrRacket
06:27 neilv: Help -> Submit Bug Report
06:28 skoorc8: ohhh... thank you
06:29 skoorc8: what if i know how to fix it... is there a submit patch option somewhere as well?
06:30 bremner: try it?  I think so, but it has been a while...
06:30 bremner: anyway, you can always just include the patch in the message
06:30 skoorc8: ok cool
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07:43 Lajla: PascalHunger, yes, exactly.
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08:12 neilv: (resolved-uri (string->uri "g/../h") (string->uri "http://a/b/c/d;p?q")) ;==> #uri"http://a/b/c/h"
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10:19 samth: skoorc8, the best place to post a patch is dev@racket-lang.org
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10:22 skoorc8: samth, well i already posted a bug report #11313 and also indicated a possible fix
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10:57 stamourv: jonrafkind: no, I will
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11:46 PascalHunger: Lajla: I like new challenges and programming styles :)
11:46 Lajla: PascalHunger, what is your original style?
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12:06 PascalHunger: Lajla: procedural / OO
12:06 Lajla: PascalHunger, ahhh, you code in PHP.
12:07 PascalHunger: Lajla: for web
12:07 PascalHunger: but i use python too
12:07 PascalHunger: sadly enough, the rapid application development of PHP just has not been surpassed yet
12:08 Lajla: Isn't RAD basically just a politically correct term to say 'I don't plan ahead'?
12:08 PascalHunger: Lajla: do you do web programming?
12:08 Lajla: PascalHunger, yeah, in php.
12:08 Lajla: And javascript.
12:09 Lajla: http://reflexions.nihilarchitect.net/
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12:09 PascalHunger: then you know PHP even though its bashed so much is faster then say python or even ruby and better to deploy as well
12:09 Lajla: That ind of stuff.
12:09 Lajla: That is true.
12:09 PascalHunger: using racket for web would be hell
12:09 Lajla: But when I php, I rarely plan ahead.
12:09 Lajla: No, it would be cool.
12:09 Lajla: Because you can use SXML
12:10 Lajla: It's easier to output XML than in php with all those dom modules and simplexml et cetera.
12:10 PascalHunger: http://docs.racket-lang.org/web-server/http.html#%28part._cookie%29
12:10 Lajla: It is just sooo verbose.
12:10 PascalHunger: just look how difficult it is just to set a cookie and get a cookie
12:10 PascalHunger: I mean its just to close to the metal (html) for a rapid envrionment
12:10 Lajla: Why?
12:10 Lajla: define time-cookie
12:10 Lajla: (make-cookie "time" (number->string (current-seconds))))
12:10 Lajla: THat'snot that difficult, is it
12:11 PascalHunger: i meant more or less getting the cookie
12:13 PascalHunger: Lajla: its just the whole thing in general honestly
12:14 Lajla: You consider it to verbose or something?
12:14 PascalHunger: I do
12:14 PascalHunger: you could almost code a web app in C at the same speed
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12:16 PascalHunger: Lajla: I think even you would struggle :)
12:16 Lajla: PascalHunger, even I?
12:16 Lajla: You underestimate my power!
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13:03 PascalHunger: Lajla: better then over estimating?
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13:08 Lajla: than
13:09 Lajla: PascalHunger, and it's a famous line from a film/
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15:12 PascalHunger: Lajla: it is than yes .....in normal english though people say whatever :) I never liked the sound of the word than* .....I never watch movies
15:12 Lajla: PascalHunger, well, even people that write then still pronounce than.
15:13 Lajla: And the people that mix it up are mostly the non-natives I guess because a lot of people have a difficulty pronouncing and hearing the difference between that, or men/man et cetera.
15:13 Lajla: Weirdly enough tough, many is actually meny in disguise, but English spelling hasn't made sense in 600 years already
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15:31 PascalHunger: Lajla: they should have never got rid of diacritical marks
15:32 Lajla: PascalHunger, well, I write naïve like that.
15:32 Lajla: But it's more that English is written today more or less how it was pronounced 600 years ago.
15:32 Lajla: Schakespeare actually pronounced his stuff more or less how he wrote it down.
15:33 Lajla: The reason behind absurd spellings like 'knight' is that all the letters used to be pronounced.
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15:46 PascalHunger: Lajla: why are you speaking english....don't you speak dutch? :)
15:47 Lajla: PascalHunger, I guess most people on IRC speak English, Dutch not that well.
15:48 PascalHunger: Lajla: I always wonder how those languages really came about in such a small area
15:48 Lajla: PascalHunger, you mean, Dutch, English and German?
15:49 carleastlund: They didn't have our fancy "system of tubes" to let them all communicate rapidly.
15:49 Lajla: Languages change faster than people think I guess, English' frozen spelling obfuscate that, but it's unlikely you could understand English of 150 years back without some training and/or adjustment
15:49 PascalHunger: well I dont really look at them to be the same but just the many languages of europe
15:50 Lajla: Well, the majority of languages in europe actually came from a common source called Proto-Indo-European nowadays which was spoken about 3 500 years back where Iran is about nowadays.
15:50 Lajla: Languages like nepalese, Sanskrit, Hindi also came from this, hence the name.
15:50 PascalHunger: latin?
15:50 Lajla: Latin is also indo-european
15:50 PascalHunger: the latin language came from iran? or has roots?
15:51 Lajla: As are English, Russian, Swedish, Nepali, Persian (Iran), Pashto (Afghanistan)
15:51 PascalHunger: I do view these languages as very different
15:51 Lajla: PascalHunger, the common ancestor of Latin and English was spoken in the area where Iran is nowadays, about there.
15:51 Lajla: They are very similar from a worldwide perspective.
15:51 PascalHunger: hmmmm
15:51 Lajla: THey are basically all 'accusative-nominative' languages that have singular and plural, have adjective, nouns, reflexive pronouns, pronouns that work similarly et cetera.
15:52 Lajla: Once you try to understand for insance Turkish grammar you'll easily see that Persian is highly related to English and totally unlike Turkish
15:52 PascalHunger: the closest language to english I think is french :\ but some might disagree
15:52 carleastlund: French is far from the closest language to English.
15:53 PascalHunger: to me its closer then dutch and german heh
15:53 carleastlund: Oh, German is much closer.
15:53 PascalHunger: The average english speaker will understand more french then they will german
15:53 PascalHunger: its changed way to much
15:53 carleastlund: I disagree.
15:53 carleastlund: There's a lot of German that sounds very English.
15:53 PascalHunger: the vocab for many things is very much similar
15:54 Lajla: PascalHunger, yes, but often they are 'false friends'.
15:54 PascalHunger: btw .....at stanford they say it takes 400 hours for french/spanish and 850 for german .......this is what the us government goes by for training people as well
15:54 carleastlund: Granted, English did inherit some things from the Romance languages that other Germanic languages don't have.  But still, German and the Scandinavian languages are much more English-like than anything else I've heard.
15:54 Lajla: I believe a war was once fought because French people used 'demand' where they should use 'ask'
15:54 Lajla: PascalHunger, well, German is grammatically more complex.
15:55 PascalHunger: isn't there like 16 different verb endings?
15:55 Lajla: It has three grammatical genders and four cases and a warpingly bizarre and complex adjectivial declension
15:55 carleastlund: English is pretty complicated, too.  French and Spanish are a lot simpler than English.
15:55 Lajla: carleastlund, I agree
15:55 Lajla: English just barely reflects its complexity in spelling.
15:56 Lajla: A lot of people who can write English perfectly actually mispronounce a lot of things when they speak. Not realizing that 'object' as in  the verb and the noun are to be pronounced differently for instance.
15:56 PascalHunger: Any time I have tried to learn any language besides spanish french or portguese i have failed horribly
15:56 Lajla: French is the reverse, it writes down a lot of endings that are no longer pronounced.
15:56 Lajla: PascalHunger, I guess it depends if words or grammar are your problem.
15:56 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: do you speak portuguese?
15:56 Lajla: But though french words are spelt somewhat similar, they are pronounced completely different.
15:56 Lajla: German and Dutch are more phonetically spelt though
15:56 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: I lived in brazil for quite some time
15:57 mario-goulart: !
15:57 mario-goulart: Interesting
15:57 mario-goulart: Poor you. :-)
15:57 Lajla: The German word for 'night' is 'nacht', if English was spelt sensibly it would be spelt as 'nait' obscuring the relationship.
15:57 PascalHunger: but I don't speak it very much at all, and after the first 3 years of not living their its hard for me to understand it like I once did but I can still speak it some what ok
15:57 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: why? hehe
15:57 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: did you like brazil?
15:58 PascalHunger: define "like" hehe
15:58 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: It was my high school years ....
15:58 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: in what state did you live?
15:58 PascalHunger: (who can hate high school years)
15:58 PascalHunger: I lived in rio de janeiro
15:59 mario-goulart: Are you brazilian?
15:59 PascalHunger: No
15:59 PascalHunger: I was born in the US
16:00 PascalHunger: It was just like anywhere else...since I was living there not like a vacation hehe
16:00 PascalHunger: but I hated the poverty
16:00 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: are you in brazil?
16:00 mario-goulart: Yes.
16:00 PascalHunger: part?
16:00 mario-goulart: Rio Grande do Sul
16:01 PascalHunger: .....thats still brazil?
16:01 PascalHunger: of course deep southern brazilians love brazil
16:01 mario-goulart: So I'm an exception. :-)
16:01 PascalHunger: I stayed in floripa for a few weeks.....much more like europe/usa in all ways
16:02 PascalHunger: rio was more well you know :)
16:02 PascalHunger: RJ that is
16:02 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: I also prefer the carioca accent, never cared for the deep south accent
16:02 PascalHunger: but im sure you think the opposite
16:03 mario-goulart: I'm not that picky about accents.  They sound funny, but I don't care much.
16:03 PascalHunger: Lajla: all i know is german is damn near impossible for me to learn, and I can never make out a single word, on paper a few words here and there, in french the vocab is more simlar it seems and the grammary is much simpler
16:04 Lajla: PascalHunger, I guess, the german grammar is more similar to the ENglish one though, but also more complex.
16:04 Lajla: As French grammar is simple.
16:04 PascalHunger: it might be more similar 500 years ago
16:04 Lajla: French doesn't have any strong verbs, umlaut plurals or stuff like that, and on top of that German has three genders.
16:04 Lajla: No, German grammar is still extremely simple.
16:05 Lajla: extremely similar*
16:05 Lajla: For instance, things like drive, drove, driven
16:05 Lajla: Doesn't happen in French, happens a lot in German and Dutch.
16:05 mario-goulart: Brazil is totally hopeless.  If I could leave it, I'd do for sure.
16:05 PascalHunger: your in the good part :)
16:05 Lajla: Or plurals like foot/feet, German also has Fuß/Füße, not howe the vowel changes.
16:05 mario-goulart: And the good part is hopeless too. :-)
16:06 PascalHunger: oh no man i don't think so, your over hyping it.
16:06 mario-goulart: About brazil?
16:06 PascalHunger: yes
16:06 PascalHunger: if you lived in RJ I would tell you its not "that" bad
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16:07 PascalHunger: but deep southern brazil is really to me just like the us and simlar, as far as living standards
16:07 PascalHunger: although the econony and the money you make is better in europe / usa for sure but still very comfortable
16:07 mario-goulart: No, I'm serious.  Things just don't work here.
16:07 mario-goulart: Curruption everywhere.
16:08 PascalHunger: corruption is a big problem yea .....us always seemed to really escape that
16:08 mario-goulart: And I mean EVERYWHERE.
16:09 PascalHunger: Lajla: I get that, but still french would be a ton easier for someone to learn
16:09 Lajla: PascalHunger, sure, but that doesn't say how similar they are.
16:09 Lajla: for most people, French would also be easier than English.
16:09 Lajla: And I mean, pronouncing English grammatically well.
16:09 PascalHunger: Lajla: I new this one professor once said greek was the most simlar language to english, but honestly complexity wise, german and greek are in the same boat to me :)
16:10 Lajla: A lot of people who appear to type English correctly actually are unaware of grammatical changes in pronunciation that aren't written down.
16:10 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: it could be much worse
16:10 Lajla: Greek is faaar more complex.
16:10 Lajla: Ancient greek that is.
16:10 PascalHunger: I wouldrather live in southern br then argentina
16:10 Lajla: Probably the most complex IE languages is Sanskrit.
16:10 Lajla: A verb easily has 1000 forms there and the conjucation is bizarrely complex, mutations in vowels, stems et cetera.
16:12 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: I got a friend from brazil who now lives in canada. His reason for moving was corruption as well but he was from salvador bahia sooo its a bit more deserved :)
16:12 PascalHunger: Lajla: hmmm yea
16:12 PascalHunger: Lajla: how about the vocab?
16:13 Lajla: English vocabulary is kind of complex I guess, in a lot of languages, words are derived more form each other.
16:13 Lajla: In Arabic this is pretty extreme to the point that the language can't really effectivelyt loan any words.
16:13 Lajla: But things like that 'book', 'letter', 'library',  'to write' are not related is word.
16:13 Lajla: weird*
16:14 Lajla: Like in Latin you had scibere, which means to write, a text or a book is scriptum, a writer is scriptor, et cetera.
16:14 Fare: scribere
16:14 Lajla: But in Old English I think a book was gewritum
16:14 Lajla: Fare, quite correct, sorry.
16:15 Lajla: In Finnish this is really fun, because it's some-what allowed to coin new words in conversation by this process.
16:15 PascalHunger: heh
16:15 PascalHunger: do you like the american accent or uk accent?
16:16 Lajla: What makes you think I don't have a Dutch accent? :')
16:17 Lajla: Basically, American people will say that I sound like someone from the UK. Scottish people say I sound like a lond0ner, londoners will say I sound like an australian who has lived in london for some time.
16:17 PascalHunger: since most people dont speak english with a dutch accent was just looking for your opinion hehe
16:17 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: unfortunatelly corruption is in every single state here.  The ones who jugde the government are corrupt.  It's like a game with flawed rules.  There's no solution with the current rules.
16:17 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: what is corruption to you....its much better then it was in 1960 :)
16:18 PascalHunger: Lajla: yea i am not a fan of any of those
16:18 PascalHunger: Lajla: us accent all the way ( the midwest one)
16:18 PascalHunger: which I guess now is the standard pretty much
16:18 Lajla: PascalHunger, the standard in the world you mean?
16:19 carleastlund: A Midwest accent is hardly standard.
16:19 PascalHunger: in the us it is
16:19 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: I'm not sure. I should get to know death statistics from that time.  At that time people were explicitly murdered.  Now people are implicitly killed by the consequences of corruption.
16:19 carleastlund: I grew up with a Midwest accent.  I no longer have it, but my relatives do.  Living around the country, I never hear anyone that sounds like them 'til I go back and visit them.
16:19 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: it was a dictatorship
16:20 PascalHunger: carleastlund: where do you live now?
16:20 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: now the democracy is TOTALLY flawed.
16:20 PascalHunger: midwest to me is the news / movies / etc
16:20 carleastlund: I have lived in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Texas, California, and Massachusetts since leaving the Midwest.
16:20 mario-goulart: PascalHunger: democracy here sounds like a joke.  You have the freedom to chose your governors, but that doesn't make ANY difference.
16:21 PascalHunger: carleastlund: what kind of accent does tom cruise have to you?
16:21 carleastlund: The media accent.
16:21 PascalHunger: well thats midwest to me
16:21 mario-goulart: You can't chose the ones who judge the government acts.  Those are indicated by the government.
16:21 carleastlund: Sorry, nope.  That's not what people in the Midwest sound like.
16:21 PascalHunger: I live in the midwest
16:21 carleastlund: What state?
16:21 PascalHunger: currently Ohio
16:22 carleastlund: I think you just know a lot of people who don't have accents.
16:22 PascalHunger: don't have accents?
16:22 carleastlund: I do too -- for instance, in New Jersey, most people I knew did not have New Jersey accents.  But I did occasionally hear it.
16:22 PascalHunger: Pretty sure everyone has an accent?
16:22 carleastlund: Don't have local accents, I mean.  Have the "media accent".
16:23 PascalHunger: the media accent came from the midwest btw
16:23 carleastlund: It is sometimes called unaccented speech.  If you take speech lessons you will be taught that as "unaccented speech" for instance.
16:23 PascalHunger: its not like they just invented it
16:23 PascalHunger: again its not un accented at all its very similar to something called neutral spanish
16:23 PascalHunger: but still an accent
16:24 PascalHunger: one could say the portguese have no accent compared to a brazilian (carioca for instance) but they still do
16:25 carleastlund: I don't know what to tell you, maybe historically you're right, but at present you'll find most people speak with that accent across the country, no more or less in the midwest than anywhere else.
16:25 Lajla: You mean 'general American'.
16:25 PascalHunger: carleastlund: thank you for the obvious :) it was adopted yes
16:25 Lajla: I think General American is mainly New York.
16:25 PascalHunger: no no absolutely not
16:25 Lajla: Just like RP is mainly London.
16:26 Lajla: PascalHunger, I don't know, people from new york seem to speak GA automatically.
16:26 Lajla: upper class london*
16:26 PascalHunger: Lajla: so do people from miami and houston just depends on the persons education level
16:26 Lajla: Most London English sounds like stuff whose face i'd not grow accustomed to.
16:26 Lajla: PascalHunger, yes, but all people in New York Do.
16:26 Lajla: THere are no people in New York it seems who do not speak GA.
16:26 PascalHunger: there is surely a new york accent
16:27 PascalHunger: ^^
16:27 carleastlund: Lajla, no way.  There is definitely a New York accent and it is definitely not "general American".
16:27 Lajla: Just as that there are no people in Haarlem (dutch place where the language academy happens to be) that do not speak in a 'standard dutch' accent
16:27 PascalHunger: I think your quite wrong on this one :)
16:27 Lajla: carleastlund, really?
16:27 Lajla: I never heard or saw that
16:27 PascalHunger: its very distinct
16:27 carleastlund: What can I say, it's there.
16:27 Lajla: It made sense to me, usually the accent spoken in the influential and industrial business places becomes the standard
16:29 PascalHunger: the whole illinois and ohio / eastern midwest area in the late 1800's the schools implemented a very neutral sound to teach students as you had people from all over the country speaking etc. If you listen to news broadcast and newspapers from around that time they talk about it
16:29 PascalHunger: honestly early 1800's
16:30 mario-goulart: sometimes brazilians don't understand brazilians from other states
16:30 PascalHunger: the louisianna purchase all the people there had to learn english and they taught them this procounciation. Thats why people from new orleans pretty much have a general american accent with a slight touch of french / southern if you want to call it
16:31 mario-goulart: Not just because of accents, but due to different slangs and vocabulary.
16:31 PascalHunger: mario-goulart: northern brazil is almost like africa :)
16:31 mario-goulart: :-)
16:32 PascalHunger: it was fun though
16:32 PascalHunger: but yea brazil for sure has many social issues that need to be taken care of
16:33 PascalHunger: racisim is one area that people could start with ....well no remember that doesn't exist :) no racism in brazil hehe
16:34 carleastlund: PascalHunger: I know nothing of the history of the "General American" accent, so I'm sure you're correct, but to call it the "midwest" accent is really confusing because there is a regional accent in the midwest today that you won't find elsewhere.  This is commonly called the "midwest" accent, since the other one is no longer localized.
16:36 PascalHunger: carleastlund: I only say midwest because it was one of the first places it was adopted to. When they bought louisianna and all the midwest was becoming more indistrial they taught all of this stuff to the new schools
16:37 PascalHunger: carleastlund: got to realize even the mexican american war was only 1846 not that long ago. they sent teachers and things to teach english the same as they have been so everyone sounded the same.
16:37 PascalHunger: carleastlund: or the whole west would have a very thick northern mexican english accent
16:38 PascalHunger: but yea maybe its not really the midwest but its surely was the first place it was really taught heavily
16:41 carleastlund: Here, some comparison of voices using the Midwest accent: Sarah Palin [originally from Idaho] and the Mom character from the cartoon Bobby's World [Minnesotan, I believe] -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3i6YHyB6k&feature=related
16:41 carleastlund: This is serious research right here ;)
16:41 PascalHunger: I think of the ga accent as a structured one rather then a planned out one
16:41 PascalHunger: Lajla: you ever heard of the oil languages in northern french?
16:41 PascalHunger: france*
16:43 PascalHunger: carleastlund: almost similar to some portguese speakers in some ways heh shes very nasal
16:43 Lajla: PascalHunger, sure, French itself is an oil language.
16:43 Lajla: It was originally just 'the oil language of paris'
16:44 carleastlund: The Midwestern accent, to my understanding, is German- and Scandinavian-influenced.  So now we're back to you thinking things sound like Romance languages that I think sound like Germanic languages.  :)
16:45 PascalHunger: i consider almost Langue d'oïl or old french sorta to be the closest language to english in many ways
16:45 PascalHunger: carleastlund: I think her being nasal is just being nasal
16:45 PascalHunger: carleastlund: its absolutely impossible to speak portguese without being nasal
16:46 carleastlund: Yes, but it was funnier my way.  :)
16:47 PascalHunger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpK-GdAOTBM you understand any of this?
16:47 PascalHunger: I can't even get a word
16:50 Lajla: PascalHunger, that
16:50 Lajla: 's quite likely if you haven't studied German
16:51 Lajla: I can understand it word by word though, because I speak German
16:51 Lajla: Which makes all the Hitler subtitle humour sort of go past me. =(
16:51 carleastlund: The emphasized "film" over and over where the subtitle says "movie" is quite clear.
16:52 carleastlund: I took one semester of German, 10 years ago, and I get lots of words out of this.
16:52 PascalHunger: I didnt even read any subtitle
16:52 PascalHunger: I never took any german and its un fair for me to try to do the same for a romance language
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16:53 carleastlund: It's not even the learning of grammar/vocabulary that helps.  It's getting used to the accent.  The pacing of the sounds.  It's impossible to even break apart syllables and words in a language you're not used to hearing.
16:53 Lajla: Scotts is also cosnidered a separate langauge by some people by the way.
16:54 Lajla: carleastlund, well, English and German are far enough apart for that to not work.
16:54 Lajla: German and Dutch some-what allow if you are a speaker of one to make up a word via some translation scheme if you don't know it. But 40% of the time they don't know it, and when they do it usually means a slightly different thing.
16:55 Lajla: For instance, German 'Arbeit' does except as Dutch 'arbeid', but the former means 'work', even in things like 'it doesn't work', and the latter means more 'labour'
16:56 carleastlund: Lajla, that's what I'm saying.  German is far enough from English that my one semester of German makes me infinitely better than PascalHunger at picking out words, even words I've never heard before or don't remember, because I know what sounds to listen for.
16:56 Lajla: Ahhh, yeah
16:56 Lajla: But this works a lot better with German <-> Dutch than German <-> English
16:56 Lajla: German and Dutch also basically have completely identical word order.
16:56 carleastlund: Give me some Greek or Chinese and I'd be totally lost.
16:56 PascalHunger: i honestly cant even get a word
16:57 Lajla: I can get all words. \o/
16:57 Lajla: My active German is a bit weird though
16:57 carleastlund: I wouldn't expect you to, PascalHunger.  Listening to conversational speech is one of the hardest parts of any new language.
16:57 Lajla: Basically I come over like a retard because it's fluend and without an accent, but just weird so they assume I'm a retard, not that I'm a tourist.
16:57 carleastlund: I mean I certainly didn't understand any of the sentences they said.
16:59 Lajla: English shares more vocabulary with German than with French I'd say though, it's just that the french words are written more similarly while still being pronounced completely differently.
16:59 Lajla: Like, the Dutch word for 'plough' is 'ploeg', if you write it like 'plow' the relationship is completely lost.
16:59 carleastlund: Yes, the German/English similarity only becomes clear after a little study.  I certainly didn't recognize it right away.
17:00 Lajla: When I tried to learn Old English I was also like 'This is basically German grammar'
17:00 Lajla: Old English cases really are a lot like modern German cases
17:01 PascalHunger: good thing its not modern english then
17:02 Lajla: Old English is a pretty cool language though.
17:02 Lajla: THe verbs are just a really big obstacle.
17:02 Lajla: Almost no weak verbs, only strong verbs.
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17:11 PascalHunger: Lajla: your kidding hehe
17:11 PascalHunger: looks very ugly
17:12 PascalHunger: Lajla: I think englsh *sounds* very nice
17:12 PascalHunger: great for singing and talking, some langugaes hard a hard time doing good in both areas hehe
17:12 PascalHunger: old engllish looks like rubbish
17:13 Lajla: PascalHunger, what text do you have?
17:13 PascalHunger: the wiki hehe
17:17 PascalHunger: Lajla: so what programming do you really do?
17:19 Lajla: PascalHunger, at the moment I'm engineering the backbone behind some webcomic (scheme) and I'm also writing a compiler. (C-- and the language I'm bootstrapping)
17:21 PascalHunger: so your writing a website in scheme?
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17:33 Lajla: PascalHunger, a back end that connects to a tripple database and outputs SVG files, yeah.
17:33 Lajla: triple*
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18:15 PascalHunger: Lajla: what are you using to make the website?
18:16 PascalHunger: the racket web server?
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18:30 PascalHunger: wb Lajla
18:36 Lajla: PascalHunger, I am trying not to use that.
18:37 Lajla: Basically I'm still searching for an apache thing I can install to just run .scm files as you would with php basically.
18:37 Lajla: <?scheme ... ?> and use display to output
18:41 Lajla: Or basically, just give it a port which is the passthrough, and make it the standard output port
18:47 PascalHunger: Lajla: your dreaming
18:47 PascalHunger: unless you write it :)
18:47 PascalHunger: mod_racket :)
18:49 Lajla: PascalHunger, you can use CGI actually.
18:49 Lajla: But racket, racket, R5 or R6 with some SFRI's is all I need.
18:50 PascalHunger: traditional cgi is different
18:50 Lajla: PascalHunger, it has to exist at some place, I cannot imagine there not being a demand of some sorts for this.
18:50 Lajla: And if there is a demand but it's not already there, then I made it and become famous, more famous than Leroy
18:54 PascalHunger: Lajla: find it and links me
19:01 Lajla: PascalHunger, I was hoping you knew it. =(
19:01 Lajla: clklein, are you there?
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19:09 PascalHunger: Lajla: .....i have been looking, just don't think it exist
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20:21 PascalHunger: Lajla: you gonna make one?
20:22 PascalHunger: Lajla: there is not many languages that have that php style behavior except for php itself and a few other languages that try and mimic
20:22 Lajla: PascalHunger, would that bring me fame, money, women and fast cars?
20:22 Lajla: Well, I wouldn't be using it that much, if I output in XML, might as well compose the whole thing in SXML.
20:23 PascalHunger: Lajla: it would bring you the goal you want
20:23 Lajla: I more mean just the darn thing assining the printout to the standard out port and allowing me to display it depending on some environment variables.
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20:32 PascalHunger: Lajla: yea well i don't think racket will be a part in this heh
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23:05 PascalHunger: Lajla: you get your solution worked out yet?
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